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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 4, 2011 18:20:38 GMT -5
ok, i have been thinking he gets his own thread, and we'll save the maore arcane and peripheral characters for the "general DC" thread. what do we call this? "new" ?  golden age, silver age, bronze age, "modern" or "iron age" (byrne to doomsday), followed by the "funk" or late 90's early 200's shit, electric blue and so forth, the 'mercury" age where ret-cons and trial balloons were trying to post-identity crisis superman with the byrne superman.....some called it neo-silver-age when geoff johns married the donnerverse to it. now this....  "NuSuperman" ? "the anti-siegal superman" ? ? neo-golden? |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 4, 2011 21:04:17 GMT -5
Can't think of anything. I'd say "Man of Steel" era, but that should belong to the Post-Crisis Byrne stuff.
Honestly? Why overthink it? It's the Post-Flashpoint Superman. We've been referring to pre and post Crisis for DECADES now, so I think Post-Flashpoint is acceptable.
Action Comics #1 can't get here fast enough for me.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 5, 2011 20:38:16 GMT -5
i'll take it.
post-flashpoint it is.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 5, 2011 23:13:03 GMT -5
It irks me slightly, though.
Crisis was an amazing, beautiful, emotional, epic send-off to fifty years of DC continuity.
Flashpoint was dreck.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 6, 2011 0:41:15 GMT -5
Yet ANOTHER Grant Morrison interview... Nrama: But you said Superman is still about justice, so is his attitude less cynical and anti-establishment than it is focused on changing that establishment for the better?
Morrison: It's not just the establishment. He's against everything he sees that's wrong. He's against crime. He's against wife-beaters. He's against people who kick dogs and cats, as much as he's against the evil Congressman or big business.
Superman is just a guy who is very young at this point, and he has big ideas about what is right and wrong. And he has the power to implement those ideas. Certainly, he stands up for the common man and for poor people and the dispossessed and the downtrodden. That's really what it's all about. If anyone in the world's been bullied, then Superman exists to take out the bully, no matter how big or smart or armed that bully might be.Rest of it here: www.newsarama.com/comics/grant-morrison-action-comics-110902.htmlLove what I'm hearing. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 7, 2011 9:35:53 GMT -5
It irks me slightly, though. Crisis was an amazing, beautiful, emotional, epic send-off to fifty years of DC continuity. Flashpoint was dreck. i could still get first printings of the whole series, but if that's your take i'll flip through a trade save some $$ any word on how many issues in the ACTION arc? |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 7, 2011 14:27:04 GMT -5
LOVED Action #1.
Plenty of action. Rags Morales' art is pretty awesome.
This is, by far, the most definitive, hard, REBOOT of Superman we've seen since Man of Steel. There's no attempt to tie this in to any earlier continuity. This is a new Superman.
A new Superman who looks, acts, sounds, and has similar power levels to the Superman who first appeared in 1938.
It's fun. And funny. And yes, Lex makes an appearance. Great stuff. WAY better than JL #1.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 8, 2011 7:59:07 GMT -5
Surely I'm not the only Superman fan on this board who went out and bought ACTION COMICS #1 yesterday?
Read it again, by the way. Even better the second time. Rags Morales' art is really amazing. Can't believe I'm saying that. The dude just gives Superman a physicality I don't think I've seen in modern times, and all of his other characters actually look like real people with expressions and emotions and shirts they forgot to iron. There's a hilarious panel featuring the destruction left in Supes' wake after he goes looking for a bad guy that just warrants repeated looks.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 8, 2011 10:55:28 GMT -5
If Grant does a mostly self-contained, myth-building, multi-year run on Superman similar to what he's done with Batman, then get ready for the best Superman comics in 20 years or more.
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Post by cjh5801 on Sept 8, 2011 11:14:45 GMT -5
I wasn't that fond of it. The art was dynamic, but Superman seemed like something of a brash young jerk to me. Heady with his own power and self-righteousness. A brashness that seems somewhat misplaced, seeing that he gets the stuffing beat out of him twice in the first issue's meager handful of pages.
This characterization does harken back to the naive heroics of Superman's origins at the hands of his teenaged creators, but I actually prefer the more mature version of the character who has a bit of humility to temper his more god-like powers.
They say this isn't your father's Superman. I'm not a father, but at 53 I'm old enough to be a grandfather, so I guess this Superman isn't meant for me anyway.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 8, 2011 11:20:21 GMT -5
All valid points, and I would be surprised if he actually keeps behaving this way. He's right in line with the Siegel/Shuster Superman, and his dialogue really recalls Bud Collyer's radio Superman.
If I had to guess, they're actually gonna give Superman an arc here, where he's this "angry young man" for a period of time, and then matures into the leader we know he's gonna be.
While I think Supes' behavior in this issue would be way out of place in say, a Chris Reeve Superman movie or a Maggin/Swan Superman issue, I just like that they're revisiting Supes' early days by, well, revisiting his early days!
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 8, 2011 14:57:09 GMT -5
i'm probably getting it tomorrow, and i have a line on variant covers but thats not a big deal to me.
i have heard some lament that superman is a bit of an egotistical/self righteous type here. most of us admire superman's humility and unassuming personality and the "i say so'' attitude will get old. QUICK.
but val is probably right, this is probably a rookie cocky superman that needs some seasoning. morrison said that "all-star" was an end-cap to a silver-age-ish superman and "action vol2" seems to be the preamble.
i'll give it a shot, but i hope he's not too heavy handed on the left wing populism. the art does look amazing though. MUCH more interesting than jim lee.
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Post by cjh5801 on Sept 8, 2011 16:10:41 GMT -5
As an aging liberal, I don't have a lot of problem with left-wing populism. On the other hand, I'm not very fond of self-righteous anarchists, regardless of their political persuasions.
Perhaps the story arc will permit Superman to grow into the type of character that most of us would recognize. But that makes one wonder just what might be the point of this whole exercise. If we end up with a character that we pretty much started with, what would the relaunch have actually accomplished? Just another commercial stunt?
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 8, 2011 16:27:23 GMT -5
Well, we can certainly have a more forceful Superman. I think as the threat levels increase, he'll turn his attention from "bullies" like the ones spotlighted in this issue to actual global threats. That'll probably do wonders for the tone. At this point in the new DCU history, these ARE the biggest threats he can see that need handling, so of course it's gonna come off a little...mean?
I'm 100% alright with this, for now. This is more or less how Supes was for the first 10 years of his publication history, not to mention over a decade on the radio (where he was REALLY a prick!), and seven years of George Reeves' kind of wry, I'll-kick-your-ass, attitude.
It's a way to give Superman a touch of "badass" without actually making him, y'know, a stupid, unshaven, comic-book/action movie "badass". It's definitely a fine line, though. I could see this going off the rails in the hands of less talented creators. The reason I'm OK with it is he really doesn't brutalize anybody. He whups a little ass, but he's more intent on using his intimidating physical presence to get people to pay attention without resorting to violence. Something he can get away with in a DCU without superheroes, but obviously will change as he starts coming into contact with the others (see: JL #1 which takes place about a year after this issue).
The REAL tell will be at the end of the month when we get to Perez's "Superman", which is set 5 or 6 years after this issue of Action. That should reveal an awful lot about what they've done to Supes' character.
See, the thing is...the modest, gentle Superman...I have roughly 1000 comics featuring him. Many of them are really good. Great stuff from Maggin, Bates, Swan, Anderson, Stern, Busiek, Byrne, and Morrison (in All-Star), and loads more. I miss the physicality of the Fleischer cartoon Superman, and the crooked smile cockiness of George Reeves sometimes. Nobody's done this with Supes in any major capacity in...well...my lifetime! I mean, it's all according to your tastes, but, I'm kinda willing to make a break with the past for a little bit because I've got two full longboxes plus a shelf full of books representing more traditional versions of Superman.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 8, 2011 20:02:23 GMT -5
it is odd that we have 3 books with superman, and each is in a different timeline.
another reason i'm still waiting to be impressed. DC is on VERY thin ice and if they thought three timelines will make it more accessible they're f*cktards.
TWO timelines would be one thing, but three? at the same time?
ugghhh....
with byrne's you had a short series as prologue then all titles pertaining to superman were concurrent.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 8, 2011 20:52:08 GMT -5
This is true, but the good thing is this...
You only have to buy the one you like.
It's a similar formula to what Grant Morrison did on Batman. There's like 10 bat-books a month, but if all you wanna read is the storyline Grant Morrison has been building for the last five years, you only have to read his book.
So, if Perez's Superman is disappointing, I don't have to keep buying it.
Also, it's my understanding that Justice League is only a "Year One" book for the first arc, after which it reverts to the present day. Not sure if Action is the same.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 9, 2011 16:01:05 GMT -5
This is true, but the good thing is this... You only have to buy the one you like. So, if Perez's Superman is disappointing, I don't have to keep buying it. y'know, thats actually a cool thing - having each title carry it's own narrative. one thing i WON'T miss is the triangle numbers and the serial format. it was a good thing back when mike carlin was editor, and the super-teams all had comparable quality. but then they brought in bogdanove and got married to the weekly-serial even adding the quarterly "man of tomorrow". let's face it, after "reign of superman" the superman comics were SHIT until jeph loeb and then geoff johns came along. i don't mind occasional crossovers- but each team should be able to let their stories breathe- without being pressed into an arbitrary format. so - yeah, i'll be able to skip books that stink without losing chapters. i hope they have the fortitude to keep it that way. the thing is, I, you, we wouldn't mind three timelines to follow, it's just that the whole "justification" of new 52 was to make it all newbie friendly. anyhoo, got my copy, will read it this weekend. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 11, 2011 15:31:42 GMT -5
What I wonder is what vision (if there is one) that DC will have at the end. He's not going to be tackling any 'real world' issues on a big scale (i.e. removing the world of all nuclear weapons, wiping out poverty, starvation/etc.)--- so, then, do the stories turn to interplanetary stuff?
Do they go to multi-crossover stuff (god, no!) with no substance?
If it's only one writer, maybe there's a strong confidence- but as you mentioned before, maybe just sticking to the books that Morrison writes might be the way to go. (Perez is iffy as a writer- great artist, but his Wonder Woman writing was not compelling by any means).
Hopefully the trade (or hardback) comes out soon....
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 11, 2011 19:20:56 GMT -5
I'm just along for the ride. As long as I'm enjoying it, I'll keep buying it. The minute it stops being fun, I'm out. I don't believe in the geek self-flagellation of buying stuff that I'm not digging for completion's sake.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 12, 2011 17:55:14 GMT -5
ok- ACTION (volume two {  } ) issue 1. overall, i really did like it. i understand some of the criticisms/worries as this is NOT superman as we understand him. sure, he's the urban vigilante of the siegal/schuster days, that doesn't bother me; but he is much more like the connor kent/ Kon-El superBOY. he is arrogant, egotistical and self righteous.(and prone to mistakes) he needs some "seasoning". now of course the whole point is to see the genesis of the character; and i'm interested to see how morrison pans this out. story: B (might revise if the arc is good- but so far i'm not that impressed) art: A . this guy is really good. the cover made me think of garcia lopez ( always a good refrerance) and it was very cinematic. since superman was barley in JL#1 i am looking to superman vol 3 #1 to get another look. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 19:56:32 GMT -5
I liked it. I'm very interested in seeing the exploits of a young and brash Man of Steel. If I want the usual Superman -- the older, upstanding, square -- I'm sure I'll see him in the other title later this month.
And I still like the T-shirt/jeans design more than the Kryptonian armor crap. Then again, I'm not much of a sci-fi guy and like things a bit more grounded.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 21, 2011 21:30:57 GMT -5
I would actually be able to deal with the "kryptonian armor" a bit better if they lost the bulkiness and those HORRIBLE boots. I don't mind the lines of it. Even the collar has grown on me. I don't mind it having "seams". But I dislike that it looks bulkier and less natural than the way they're drawing the Batman costume right now. It's really annoying.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 22, 2011 14:37:26 GMT -5
I would actually be able to deal with the "kryptonian armor" a bit better if they lost the bulkiness and those HORRIBLE boots. I don't mind the lines of it. Even the collar has grown on me. I don't mind it having "seams". But I dislike that it looks bulkier and less natural than the way they're drawing the Batman costume right now. It's really annoying. i don't mind the collar either. boots are shit. i have to think it'll get some revision in the future. conversely, i LIKE the supergirl costume. it's sexy in a kitschy way. probably read that one tonight. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 25, 2011 16:50:13 GMT -5
In talking about what Morrison has in mind, if anyone is interested, Morrison has a hardback out called, "Supergods": The first few pages, where he breaks down the appeal of Superman comics is for free preview here: www.amazon.com/Supergods-Vigilantes-Miraculous-Mutants-Smallville/dp/1400069122/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316987093&sr=8-1He doesn't just talk about Superman, but follows the other comic book heroes that follow, and breaks them down to what gives them their appeal. Another chapter with Superman talks about Superman in the fifties, and how 'free' the Superman comics got then- when they weren't trying to be realistic, but more like folktales, with usually unhappy endings & points out the time travel (not time reversal) story with Superman trying to go back in time to prevent Krypton's destruction as one of the best ones. The hardback is about half-price from Amazon, definitely worth it imo- but if you want to see what's in Morrison's mind the way he sees DC heroes, this is a must-buy. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 26, 2011 8:56:55 GMT -5
i going to get superman #1- absolutely.
but i gotta tell ya, i wish perez was drawing and not writing. i saw the preview and was totally underwhelmed.
the thing is, its SUPERMAN that needed to "click" the most. between the estate litigation motivating cosmetic and narrative "alterations" and the half-assed "it's all brand new! except for batman and green lantern, so keep your chalk board and slide-rule handy!" premise of the "new 52" the superman titles have the heaviest burden of proof!
i might have to bag issues 1 and 2, then wait for another arc.
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