the "NEW" superman - general discussion

[Valentine Smith]

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled about Superman #1. I'm trying to stay positive here. But...I'd feel a heck of a lot better if it was Mark Waid or Kurt Busiek writing it.

[cypher85]

Mark Waid yes. But Busiek's most recent run with Supes was Abysmal IMO.

[Valentine Smith]

I actually enjoyed that Busiek run, it was just a little disjointed. What killed it was the constant lateness, the fill-in issues, and the fact that they had to shoehorn the kid in there (since that was supposed to be a story that was wrapped up quickly in Action Comics, but since the Kuberts couldn't meet a fucking deadline, dragged on for a year, thereby forcing Busiek to drop the brat into his book) I dug the scope of it, and I felt like he was kinda paying homage to the Cary Bates/Elliot Maggin style of Superman writing.

I love Waid (by the way, his new Daredevil series might be my favorite comic on the market right now), but I felt Birthright was a HUGE misstep and missed opportunity, but still, there's no question that he knows what Superman is all about.

[cypher85]

I just re-read birthright a couple of months ago. My first reading since it came out. I really enjoyed it, and I didn't think I would. I remember liking the Mini when it originally came out. But, I kind of let the internet comments get to me in the following years. So thusly I didn't think I would enjoy it as much on my second reading. But, I found that I really really had a blast with it.

I am always a fan when Superman's first adventures on earth really have to do with krypton. I also really like when the costume and shield have a kryptonian origin. I think the idea of Luthor scaring the general public into believing there was a kryptonian invasion is a pretty cool concept as well. I also thought that the opening was brilliant with Clark having to deal with real world issues, and that being a catalyst for his becoming Superman. There are quite a few other aspects of birthright that I liked as well. I actually have a hard time finding much I don't like, other than seeing "aura's". Which really didn't play a part at all.


Val, can I ask you to expand upon what you didn't like about Birthright?

[Valentine Smith]

WHAT I LIKED:
Loved the look of Krypton and all the Kryptonian Tech (really loved it. Wish it was used more. Loved the heck out of it)

Loved the way they explained the suit and the "S" crest. As far as I'm concerned, THAT IS THE ANSWER and the best explanation they've ever done for it in comics or other media. Can't remember if Ma Kent still made the suit, in which case, it's a near miss.

I actually liked the "seeing auras" thing, as that's lifted straight out of Elliot Maggin's "Last Son of Krypton" (which is my favorite Superman story ever). It makes sense that someone who can see the whole spectrum can't necessarily "turn off" the way he sees the world, and his other vision powers then become a matter of "focus". I thought that was very smart.

As a vegetarian, I enjoyed that little bit about Clark being one as well, but I realize that pissed a lot of people off.

I liked that it put Lex's roots back in Smallville.

WHAT I DISLIKED:
I disliked the way Waid wrote dialogue in Birthright. It felt like he was trying to write like Bendis with lots of "ummms..." and half-sentences, and it didn't come of naturally at all. Really stuck out.

I HATED the angsty Jonathan Kent. That whole conflict with him and Clark early on made NO SENSE to me at all, and really just smacked of them trying to squeeze in some Smallville-style moping.

I thought Luthor's plan was total bunk. It wasn't believable, and the entire last few issues felt really rushed and forced. As was the resolution. It felt like the entire "fake invasion" took place in the time it took to read the comic, and that's never, ever a good thing. I think it would have been much more satisfying if there was an ACTUAL Kryptonian invasion of some kind, and even though Supes defeats it, that's what Lex uses to justify his own hatred of Superman, and to try (and ultimately fail) to sow the seeds of distrust against Superman. However, this would have required an extra issue or two to properly expand on.

So yeah, my MAJOR problems with it were the dialogue and the pacing, Once it got past issue three, everything just kind of decompressed and there was no sense at all of the passage of time or anything like that. I had no reason to believe that Superman or Lois or ANYONE had any kind of arc resolution by the end of it, because it all felt so forced. "Secret Origin" (which I greatly prefer) suffered from a VERY similar pacing problem, where the last 2 or 3 issues seem to happen in the space of fifteen minutes, and the turn of people distrusting to people loving Superman felt rushed an unnatural.

Here's the thing..."Man of Steel", while I will always have problems with it, is a total home run in this area. Each issue is COMPLETE UNTO ITSELF, the whole series takes place over the span of 6 or 7 years (?) (if you count it from the time Clark first appears as an "adult" in MoS #1) but you never feel like you've missed big chunks of the story from issue to issue. It's one issue for the origin, 1 issue to establish Clark and Lois, 1 issue to establish his relationship with the greater DCU (Batman), 1 issue for Luthor, 1 issue for Bizarro (which ties into the Lois and Luthor stuff from previous issues), and then the final issue to tie-up his origin once and for all. That's IT. They don't try to hit you with the kitchen sink (like "Secret Origin" did) or tell a decompressed, "this is the first adventure of Superman" story stretched out over nine issues (like "Birthright" did).

[cypher85]

I agree with you regarding the characterization of Jonathan.

But, I didn't find Luthor's plot to be unbelievable or too far out there. Luthor wants the world to hate and fear superman. And if he had the means to make them believe there was an invasion than you know Luthor would take that opportunity. And I personally wouldn't have wanted an actual Kryptonian invasion, because then the world be be justified in their hatred and distrust of superman. But, it goes to show just how far Luthor would go in that he believes he can pull one over on the entire world to justify his own prejudice.

I actually think BR is my favorite origin of Supes as portrayed in the comics. But I loves me some Bryne too.

[cjh5801]

Just finished Superman #1. As with Action #1, I was underwhelmed, but I look forward to seeing what others think about it. Maybe I'm missing the point.

[Valentine Smith]

Just picked it up, but may not have a chance to read it until tomorrow. I don't have very high hopes for this one...

[Valentine Smith]

So, I read Superman #1.

It was actually really interesting.

First of all...I'm impressed by how DENSE it was. Most comics, particularly the "new 52" take about 5 minutes to read these days. Not so with Superman #1. It was like a comic from the 80s or early 90s in that you got a COMPLETE story, with TONS of dialogue and exposition. While that isn't necessarily a good thing unto itself, it was just an interesting contrast with say...Justice League #1 where absolutely nothing happens.

Heavy focus on the Daily Planet and the supporting cast. They do a lot to establish how the Daily Planet is actually still relevant in an information-heavy universe. Very interesting new status for Lois Lane. Can't wait for the hilarious outcry because they made Morgan Edge black.

Supes fights some bizarre monster-alien thingy that also could have come straight out of a Maggin/Bates issue of Superman back in the day. It's pretty clear that Supes has matured considerably since Action #1, as he's not nearly as brash and arrogant (but he's still not against letting criminals THINK he'll do them serious harm if they fuck with him, which I guess is ok). It's roughly five or six years after JL #1 and they make it clear that his power levels are still increasing.

I dunno. I wasn't blown away, but it's certainly INTERESTING. I'm gonna keep going with it, even just to see how they handle this. The suit looks better in some panels than in others. It really only looks bad when they go out of their way to make it look bulky and segmented.

[cypher85]

I actually enjoyed it quite a bit more than I thought I would.

I have read some reviews where there is a complaint about the amount of time spent with the supporting cast vs. superman himself. But since I know Superman so well, it is nice to have an issue that really focuses on the supporting cast. Something that has been missing from Superman comics for awhile. Johns attempted to include them more in Action, but he wasn't on the book long enough for it to really matter.

I did think it was sort of redundant for the newspaper text describing what Superman was doing...while he was doing it. If your going to do that at least have some subtext so that the written text itself adds to the narrative and the story and complements the art. Here the text just restates what we are seeing. While reading the text I did wonder how the "writer" text knew some of the things that they did. So it made sense to see at the end that Clark actually wrote it.

I also really like how Perez is attempting to update the media business in the Superman comics. In the real world, print media is almost dead for the majority of the country. So it's nice to see them address this issue.

It was a little sad to see the traditional DP get knocked down. I didn't know that was coming. Again it makes sense, when Edge wants to have a multi-media conglomerate. But still sad. And it is nice to see Clark struggle with the changes. But, at the same time, he needs to recognize that the world is changing. And print media is dying.

I also really liked how there was some actual meat in this issue. It isn't all splash pages and took a little while to actually read. It felt like it had some substance and told a whole story. So kudo's to Perez for that.

I liked the art. I hadn't really read anything by Merino, so I didn't know what to expect. But, I enjoyed it. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like I see a hint of Jurgens in there. The art was good though for the most part.


A few gripes about the art though.

I don't like how Perry or Jimmy are being drawn. Perry looks like he stepped out of a 90's image comic. And Jimmy has lost all his personality (in the looks department). He looks like just a generic background DP staffer.

Last note, I laughed to myself when you can tell Perez is trying to be current. But, no one uses the term "twittering". It's tweeted.


I was actually surprised at how much I liked the issue. But, it was classic Supes, with his regular supporting characters. I am looking forward to keep reading this and Action. And to see how action fills in the gaps between the start of that series and the start of this one.

[Valentine Smith]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Good call about the hint of Jurgens in the art, which is, of course, a good thing.

The whole thing was a little...DOUR though, wasn't it? Just kinda...I dunno...joyless. That probably has something to do with the fact that they start the issue on sort of a downbeat note, but I just got this really down vibe from the whole thing. I hope this isn't necessarily the tone for the whole series. Compare it with the fun and movement of Action Comics. But, again, this might be a deliberate contrast.

Hated those last couple of pages. Forced drama/mopiness, and frankly...a little creepy and gross. "We were just ummmm...celebrating." Who the fuck answers the door if they're "celebrating" like that? Not me!

[Jor-L5150]

Sept 29, 2011 7:31:54 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

Can't wait for the hilarious outcry because they made Morgan Edge black.

.

it's only ok to change "good guy" white people to black.

changing a "bad white guy" to a black guy WILL have an outcry, but not from the usual suspects! ;D
DC better expect a call from shiela jackson lee or maxine waters!

with MOS perry's black and there is no morgan edge.
in "new 52" perry's white ( wha..? ) and edge is black.

hey WB/DC...good job!

[Valentine Smith]

Now THIS is interesting...

www.newsarama.com/comics/george-perez-off-superman-110930.html

As of issue 7, Perez is off writing duties on Superman. The new creative team?

Keith Giffen and Dan Jurgens! Perez might stay on to ink Jurgens' pencils.

THIS IS REALLY COOL! And I'm not downplaying Perez's writing, as I DID enjoy Superman #1. But Giffen/Jurgens? FUCK YEAH!

[cjh5801]

I agree with the "dour" feeling, and with the comment about the somewhat creepy ending. I also thought that the monster fight felt like something of a throw back to the silver age, almost like something from one of the cartoon shows. This is supposed to be fresh?

So why is Clark Kent such a loser in this universe? Superman is joyless and Clark Kent is a loner who doesn't have a life. And what is the idea with Lois interrupting a celebratory f*ck with some guy to answer the door in a shirt? It just looks like a cheap ploy by the writer to make Clark's life seem even more miserable.

[Jor-L5150]

Sept 30, 2011 13:53:15 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

Now THIS is interesting...

www.newsarama.com/comics/george-perez-off-superman-110930.html

As of issue 7, Perez is off writing duties on Superman. The new creative team?

Keith Giffen and Dan Jurgens! Perez might stay on to ink Jurgens' pencils.

THIS IS REALLY COOL! And I'm not downplaying Perez's writing, as I DID enjoy Superman #1. But Giffen/Jurgens? FUCK YEAH!

i'll take it! but jurgens is best when he isn't spread too thin. back when he was drawing two books and writing one or two at a time his work got a bit formulaic.
don't get me wrong, i love him, but he's best when he can concentrate on one book at a time and he needs solid inkers.
i like perez for that, but man i miss art thibert. THAT was a good team! thibert/jurgens ftw.

interesting that jurgens is writing JL:I and the illustrator of that book seems to be channeling a 90's jurgens.

what i'd give for a phil jiminez or a jerry ordway to pencil!

[Valentine Smith]

Jimenez is incapable of meeting a deadline. His work is pretty, but frankly, it's not so pretty that it's worth waiting four months in between issues. Ordway's work isn't what it used to be, which is too bad, as he's a top ten artist for me, and a top 5 Superman artist!

[Deleted]

Oh GOD.

Jurgens?!

AND Giffen?!??!??

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

[Jor-L5150]

is it me, or do the boots look different here?
still awful, but not as bad imo.

[Jor-L5150]

Sept 30, 2011 14:45:22 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

Jimenez is incapable of meeting a deadline. His work is pretty, but frankly, it's not so pretty that it's worth waiting four months in between issues. Ordway's work isn't what it used to be, which is too bad, as he's a top ten artist for me, and a top 5 Superman artist!

i mention jiminez because he's practically a perez clone! ;D
maybe they should tag-team drawing.

[cypher85]

I'm excited that Jurgens will be doing the art. But, Perez surprised me with issue #1. And I was looking forward to seeing what he did with the title. Hopefully the first arc is good. And then hopefully Giffen does a good job.

I had to drop Booster when Giffen was on the title when Jurgens left to do time masters. I know there are major Giffen fans out there. But, I have never been too impressed with him.

[ShogunLogan]

I have a question regarding the continuity already. Basically, what is it?

I mean, I read Justice League, and it seems everything is new. Batman and Green Lantern are introducing themselves to each other and they refer to the guy or alien (I can't remember exactly what they said and I am at work) in Metropolis..as if they don't know much about him. But, in Superman #1, it seems Supes has been there forever. They referred to him as keeping the Daily Planet in business all those years (paraphrasing).

[cypher85]

Justice League is set 5 years in the past. And Superman is set during current time. And to make it even more confusing, Action Comics is supposedly set about a year or so before Justice League ;D

[cjh5801]

Picked up Action #2 today. For those who liked #1, I think you'll love it. However, I asked my comic book store to drop all DC books from my file. The new 52 may turn out quite well, but it's not a journey I want to take.

I wonder if it's just a coincidence that we have "the new 52" and there are 52 weeks in a year? If sales expectations aren't met, perhaps DC will use the "52" as an excuse to revert back to the old continuity next year--after 52 weeks.

An old guy can hope, can't he?

[Valentine Smith]

Action #2 was great, but it just felt like an extension of #1. I'm sorry, but $3.99 is WAAAAY too much money for 20 story pages.

That being said, I did love those pages. Loved the look of the rocket. Could the fact that it's speaking have something to do with the Eradicator?

And could that last panel possibly have something to do with...Brainiac?

Loved the Gene Ha Krypton designs that they gave us as bonus material. This is gonna be a fun ride, I think.

[cypher85]

Picked it up last night, but haven't read it yet.

But, given what Val says I'm expecting this issue to be pretty freaking good. Sounds like we get the starts of the introduction of Krypton mythology.

I am disappointed it's a 3.99 title though.