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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 21, 2012 13:06:05 GMT -5
Tyler pointed out to me that the Jason Robards' military man footage was from "The Swarm" (with Michael Caine rotoscoped out of the shot and 'defcon' sign rotoscoped into the shots), when the villains are approaching the Lincoln monument.
To me, that was one of the great genius things that Selutron came up with--- particularly- again- because we already saw footage from "The Swarm" officially blended into STM by Donner/Baird in the first place.
It's available on amazon, but I don't think it's available on HD or blu...
(Not too suprising, as it was considered one of the biggest flops ever for its time- I'm amazed it's available on dvd as is).
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 21, 2012 14:05:36 GMT -5
we already saw footage from "The Swarm" officially blended into STM by Donner/Baird in the first place. when was that? |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 21, 2012 14:06:51 GMT -5
Ah ok it's from S4. The were a few deleted flying shots of Reeve that I'd love to see used, but they're not in HD sadly. Only HD flying shot I can think of off hand is THAT flying shot lol.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 21, 2012 18:11:20 GMT -5
I'd read that outtakes from "The Swarm" with some of the train stuff. In any case, if you look at the film, with its time frame and the way it's shot- there's a lot of opportunities to recycle stuff there and integrate them well.... moreso than licensing "Armageddon" footage as Thau was suggesting in his interview- (although it's hard to tell if he was joking or not when they were exploring this possibility in the interview.)
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Post by booshman on Apr 21, 2012 22:36:04 GMT -5
Ah ok it's from S4. The were a few deleted flying shots of Reeve that I'd love to see used, but they're not in HD sadly. Only HD flying shot I can think of off hand is THAT flying shot lol. It's the take-off shot after saving Italy from the volcano. |
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Post by booshman on May 22, 2012 9:35:09 GMT -5
I've been tinkering with re-creating the end credits from STM/SMII. It proved more difficult than you would expect and required a completely different method than the opening credits. vimeo.com/42616310 |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 22, 2012 10:17:27 GMT -5
Looks good to me Boosh. And once you put your new credits into the existing footage (assuming you're not doing a COMPLETELY new set of end credits, lol) it'll look like it belongs there, just like how your new opening credits look.
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Post by booshman on May 22, 2012 10:30:57 GMT -5
I might get away with using the existing credits for some of them, like the static ones that fade in and out at the end. I think a majority of them will be redone though.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 22, 2012 11:24:34 GMT -5
The end credit test looks amazing, Boosh--- btw- love hearing that you're continuing on this project!!! - But... I also wonder...it's your cut, but.... instead of end credits, wouldn't you rather be spending time on dazzling us with new stuff on the Metro battle?  jk |
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Post by booshman on May 22, 2012 11:54:35 GMT -5
Haha, the metro battle is definitely gonna be a while away. I haven't got much on the way of a plan in place for it as yet, so other things will take priority. Looks like I'm almost done with my Superman Returns edit, so hopefully I can get some actual editing done now my laptop won't be monopolised by that.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 22, 2012 20:49:46 GMT -5
Not sure if you've written down notes/ideas for what you plan to do with the Metro battle, but is there really anything that can be done to improve it (aside from taking away campy humor, as the DC already did)? I'd like to think that maybe some of those flying shots/reaction shots from S3 when Supes is flying through the caverns could be used, but without additional shots of the villains I feel like all that can be done is re-use their shots (which at this point I'd rather not see). And I don't even wanna think about the idea of using miniatures/action figures that would be digitally added into b.g plates. Or CGI villains. Special effects programs for "armchair editors" can only do so much, unfortunately.
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Post by booshman on May 22, 2012 22:35:01 GMT -5
I want to keep it similar to the battle in my last edit. With the slapstick gone but without the crappy editing of TDC. I'll try to get a few more moments in there with the footage I didn't use before. I also want to try to remove most, if not all of the doll shots.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 22, 2012 23:19:01 GMT -5
Ah good. I was gonna say, I remember you removing one doll shot in your last cut, but there's that doll shot when Supes dives to catch the empire state building spire (as well as the visible wire, unless it was removed for the blu-ray). I haven't watched your edit in a while, but the only comment I have right now is to not simply use the DC version. I felt it was too quick, heavily cut, and the audio/musical cues are just another example of Thau's poor audio work.
Though I can't imagine what you're gonna have to go through if you decide on using theatrical audio, but DC video and have to synch it all up like I did lol.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2012 10:50:28 GMT -5
I thought that DC could have/should have cut out more of the camp.
In the middle of the action, having the woman calmly cry out, "Thank you!" when all heck is supposed to be breaking loose and the woman looking up at Zod and Supes on top of her car during the fight were still pretty annoying to me- I was suprised that Thau left it in, given the Mank script had NO humor during the Metro battle (if anything, it was darker).
Head replacement to alter some of the flying shots is still a possibility for armchair editors- particularly for the villains' limited flying shots. I think about what was done for finishing 'The Crow' when Brandon Lee was killed & that film is still a bit of a classic, even if imperfect because of the compromises needed to finish it digitally without the lead actor.
So long as it feels seamless enough at the end, I suppose (something that the Thau cut SHOULD have been).
Although it would be a gigantic pain, would love it/hope that eventually SOMEONE (pro or not) would tackle trying to replicate what was in Mank's script for the Metro battle using whatever resources are available. (Though extremely unlikely- it's a lot of footage that one would have to generate that doesn't exist)
*sigh*
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 23, 2012 12:13:56 GMT -5
Ya know something CAM, the shots of the woman saying "thank you" and the other people sticking their heads out the window didn't bother me. If anything, the people laughing when Supes is spinning Zod around is the only camp that Thau left in that should've been removed. And I'm not going to say my idea about that scene again, but hopefully Boosh keeps my idea in mind when he gets to that part. Even if nothing else, just to try out a few things and see if he can come up with anything.
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Post by Kamdan on May 23, 2012 14:50:32 GMT -5
Good work on the end credits test. It truly shows just how lazy Thau was. If you could do it by yourself, why couldn't have he?
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Post by Jimbo on May 23, 2012 14:53:51 GMT -5
Nice job. Are you going to add some random shining effects too?
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Post by booshman on May 24, 2012 1:58:05 GMT -5
Nice job. Are you going to add some random shining effects too? I reckon I'll have to give it a go. |
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atp
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Post by atp on May 24, 2012 3:23:53 GMT -5
Good work on the end credits test. It truly shows just how lazy Thau was. If you could do it by yourself, why couldn't have he? Maybe it's because he was busy doing the whole movie itself? And under time pressures and a tiny budget? |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 24, 2012 10:32:25 GMT -5
We all know he had a tight deadline and a limited budget- but the thing that comes to mind while watching the DC is:
If short on time- Why didn't he just leave most of the stuff that was already cut by Baird (and was in the IRC) 'as is' and focus on the other portions that really needed help? (*Thank goodness MOST of the Baird stuff was untouched, but...ough....IRC widescreen dvd, please, WB!!!)
Reworking the music (badly) or removing the Thorne music in spots that didn't need reworking hasn't been received well by anybody...and was a waste of precious time! If anything, fan cuts almost all put the Thorne music back.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 24, 2012 12:33:50 GMT -5
Right on the money CAM!! There was no reason for music changes. If Donner made Thau remove as much Lester footage as possible, that's one thing, but the music shouldn't have mattered. They ended up using a bit of Thorne music anyway. Adding back in Williams music didn't make the DC feel more like a true STM sequel, it made it feel like a youtube poop video.
I don't completely blame Thau for how the DC turned out. WB should've had this thing going long before Superman Returns came around. We've only been writing to them about this for years. Myself, back in 2003. Also as stated before, I'm under the belief that had Donner not been involved, we would've had a VERY different final product. And by different, I mean better.
I'm optimistic that WB knows about what we've been doing. They definitely know of Selutron, we know that. I'd like to think with MOS on the horizon, WB *might* have something for S2 cooked up. Not another full-fledged release of all the films, but possibly, just possibly, a small 1,000 or 2,000 copy run of a "final" edit for S2. Specifically for fans like us, and anyone else who didn't like the DC who aren't obsessed with this as we are. Yeah, I know, a big company like WB wouldn't put that much money into something that wouldn't turn enough of a profit, but I'd like to think that, given what us editors have been able to do on our home computers, it can't POSSIBLY cost THAT much to essentially make another fan edit of the film and call it an "official" release. Way I see it, Lester is MIA, and Donner didn't HAVE to be involved with the DC, he chose to be. So based on that, I know WB are allowed to do what they want with the film. And even if Donner had a problem with it, the DC will always be available for those who like it.
I know, all wishful thinking, but I like to dream.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 24, 2012 14:58:53 GMT -5
It's just hard to believe that with the number of 'second cuts' that some movies get out there on dvd- that SII would have so much trouble being able to get another chance at it.
If someone is out there pointing at disappointing dvd sale figures, they should first look at that before condemning another cut of SII. (Which I assume is why there's no greenlight right away for a third cut) ....but... I don't know how WB was able to figure out accurate sale numbers on this, given that the box set (which apparently did well) included it, and many wouldn't have paid twice for it, if not necessary.
*sigh*
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dugpa
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Post by dugpa on May 30, 2012 3:14:00 GMT -5
Tell me about it. Look at Highlander 2. In the third or possibly the fourth cut they went back and did all new CG effects. Now that franchise can't be more profitable than Superman in any reality. I'm glad that you folks are still continuing with the fan cuts as they are really great to watch, extremely creative and very inspirational. It's something to look forward to since Warner Bros. can't get their act together. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 30, 2012 10:33:33 GMT -5
And of course, don't forget Blade Runner - Final Cut. Which was also a WB film, I might add. They gave Ridley Scott a small budget to add a few new things there as well. So they obviously are familiar with this idea.
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Post by Jimbo on May 30, 2012 11:04:07 GMT -5
And of course, don't forget Blade Runner - Final Cut. Which was also a WB film, I might add. They gave Ridley Scott a small budget to add a few new things there as well. So they obviously are familiar with this idea. Blade Runner was already there though. It just needed a few minor tweaks. Not much money needed to one CGI matte here, one rotoscope there. To recreate S2 with real effort from scratch to completion would require most of a post-production budget of any current film. |
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jk
