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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 30, 2012 11:21:50 GMT -5
If nothing else, I know my own gripe with Thau stems from unnecessary changes (most of the time for the worse) that seemed to allocate more time/effort in some areas unnecessary, and less time/effort in other areas that needed more work. We all knew he didn't have much of a budget, but...
I expected at LEAST be as good as the IRC..... not worse than (thru overcutting and bad voice dubs and bad music replacement)!
*sight*
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 30, 2012 11:49:42 GMT -5
Well in that case, I'm gonna go with CAM on this one and simply say "Give us a blu-ray of the RIC". Couldn't cost them THAT much to simply do an HD upgrade of the footage. heck, if you wanna go a step further, replace the Lara scenes with Jor-el to. And remove the Lester camp as the Dc already did. That's a simple cut and paste job. With an idea like this, the only real cost would be distribution.
TBH, I'm not asking for a complete re-do that would require such a high budget. Considering what we've all been able to do on our own with our computers. I'm not asking for CGI villains ruling the world or anything big like that. Little things like the stuff we've done so far (removing sweat stains, replacing miniature shots, new credits, re-powering scene of Supes flying out of the FOS, a new ending using existing material, etc..).
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jun 4, 2012 12:23:14 GMT -5
Looking forward to this. I recently watched Superman 1-3 again, and I still can't appreciate SII anymore, after knowing all the damn problems with it. I used to be able to just watch that film, now I feel like I am just observing the problems. I need to see something new, and I think this will be the one for me. Been waiting far too long for Selutron to do his cut. When this cut is done, I'm definitely saving it for a traditional Christmas Superman II viewing, after STM of course!  Does anyone else get this problem with Superman II now or just me? |
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Jun 4, 2012 12:25:39 GMT -5
I can still watch it and pretty much enjoy it (Both theatrical and RDC).
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 4, 2012 12:28:52 GMT -5
I can still watch the theatrical version - mostly. The only part I can't stand is the Metropolis slapstick during the blowing scene. (har har)
For me, the perfect version of the film is the ABC cut with repowering-scene-only Brando added and slapstick removed, and the theatrical cut is about 90% of that.
Donner Cut is wholly unwatchable.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jun 4, 2012 12:28:53 GMT -5
I can still watch it and pretty much enjoy it (Both theatrical and RDC). Lucky bastard.  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 4, 2012 13:38:33 GMT -5
EvilSupes, I know exactly how you feel. Which is why I haven't watched S2 in it's entirety in over a year, and why I gave up on making my own fan edit. I honestly can't decide which versions of certain scenes I prefer, as well as different small edits that I did on certain parts. Sometimes I re-watch parts of all my old drafts (my last draft was #7), and it's amazing how my ideas of what "works' has changed over the past 5 years. For ex: in one draft I cut out Jor-el's "once before when you were small...final energy...etc". When Jor-el says "look at me Kal-el softly, I cut to the 2nd "look at me Kal-el" (since Reeve's head is turned the same way) and we go straight to "kryptonian prophecy". I think I originally did this because a) I didn't care for some of the Reeve reaction shots (like when his hand is out, or his "Father, no..." delivery, also didn't care for Jor-el repeating himself) and 2) I wanted it to be faster like the theatrical version. However, now I think that dialogue is important, so it's back. Another edit I did: after Clark tells Lois "And you're thinking about food!!" I cut out "aren't you impressed' and all the Superman dialogue. I originally cut to "I'm sorry, I guess have a one track mind..". Just to make the scene go by faster (and remove Margot's close-up, lol). But again over time I re-thought this edit and put it back in. Margot's different appearance be damned, I like this bit of dialogue.
However, there's still things I can't commit on. Specifically my ending. And don't get me started on new effects ideas that I have which would take forever to achieve. Especially now that the blu-rays are out and rendering that stuff must take a day an a half for one scene AFTER spending days or weeks working on the new effects, lol. So, since Booshman and I are on the same wavelength on most things, I've decided that whatever his final product is will be my official version of S2. Hopefully when I watch it I'll be able to just take it as-is and no longer look at it from an editor's viewpoint lol.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 4, 2012 14:25:08 GMT -5
I hear ya, Tyler.
If Thau had done a decent job on the editing of SII, I would have liked nothing more than to sit back and commit to the new RDC whenever I have an urge to watch the film...
But....
Being how things turned out-- with just about EVERY other scene badly re-scored or unnecessarily hacked up to pieces or mismatched to heck, it's almost impossible to enjoy the film 'as is'--- and it's almost impossible to reconstruct it properly as a fan without access to the actual footage.
If nothing else, the fan cuts & Selutron bits show just how important editing is/was to the whole process. With the ABC/IRC version as comparison, it's difficult to find ANY Thau cut scene and truly get swept away into it - as one example, compare the emotion of the young Clark scene where he finds the crystal for the first time- very slow, but emotional and mysterious--- versus the rather sloppy and un-involving cut scene of Clark finding the crystal and picking it up to re-summon Jor-el.
The editing of the RDC was almost as bad as Lester's taking over of SII.
Very, very sad.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 4, 2012 15:52:01 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, Thau did get a few things right. I know my feelings towards Thau's editing choices have been nothing but negative, but here's me praising his editing for the first (and probably only) time:
-the coloring of the film EXCEPT for the FOS scenes. Though granted with the blu-rays this isn't a problem anymore.
-the villains trial recap is perfect. I have never had any problem with it. From the moment we hear Jor-el's voice (I actually prefer the alternate faster line reading, but only in context of this recap), to when Jor-el walks away.
-cutting out early NASA banter ("45 days" stuff). Unnecessary and conflicts with the idea that S2 takes place immediately after STM. Also, hair dryer line is a better end to NASA scene than high school line, though RIC version with both is best.
-turning the camera when the villains fly off the moon (so we don't see the curtains flapping). Though granted I can't imagine it'd be hard to simply digitally fix the curtains moving so that they don't. Like, use one frame of the curtains not moving and just roto it into every frame after (or something like that).
-Speeding up Supes' fly-in at Niagara to save the boy (now the theatrical version looks like he's flying in slow-motion, lol. However, speeding up the action in later scenes, was wrong). Also, adding the "catch" noise when he catches him, as well as cutting the shot of Supes catching him, cut to Lois, back to him lifting up the boy. Even as a kid I never liked that continuity error, and wondered why it wasn't one continuous take. Glad Thau corrected it.
-Cutting out police chatter before villains appear. Though some would argue it's better to get to know these guys a bit before we get to the "action". Also, removing Non acting like a dog. Though I'd have kept him lifting the car, and cut after Non throws the gun away.
- Villains destroy Washington Monument instead of Mount Rushmore. More realistic. Now, if Thau had done the Mt. Rushmore scene with, say, Ursa using her heat vision slowly, while Non broke parts of the president's face with his hands, and edited it right, that would have been better (as you CAM have tried before).
-Zod using a machine gun. Very glad this was re-instated.
-Villains meet Lex BEFORE Supes is re-powered.
-Better take of Non taking Perry's vase in the face. To me it just looks more intense than the "bouncing off the head" take in the theatrical.
-Although I prefer Supes getting punched by Non and crashing into the air vent, I have to give kudos to Thau on his job in rotoscoping Supes crashing into the SOL torch and flying off again using the theatrical shots of Reeve (instead of a miniature as Lester did). Shots like that just make me think how much more Thau could've done had he been given the time and budget.
Considering some RIC scenes show up as deleted scenes, we know Thau knows of the RIC footage. It's simply unfortunate that he felt (or Donner felt) like trying to give us a different movie.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jun 4, 2012 16:12:34 GMT -5
i doubt i'll ever watch the theatrical or RDC anytime soon.
theatrical is too too corny, and RDC too flawed.
i like these hybrid cuts as it's a homogenized version. looking forward to seeing what you lot come up with.
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Post by booshman on Jun 13, 2012 4:12:46 GMT -5
Here's a new clip. A reworking of the flying fortress exit, to include the jump up the step from the original scene in the movie. vimeo.com/43956069 |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 13, 2012 9:47:51 GMT -5
YES!!! Awesome work there Boosh.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 17, 2012 18:35:38 GMT -5
The colors look great, but can Supes move more upwards when he leaps out of frame?
Not to be an armchair fx guy, it looks good, but it looks more like he's sliding across than up and away- ( I only throw it out assuming that Aftereffects makes it an easy option to try out as well)
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Post by booshman on Jun 17, 2012 23:58:02 GMT -5
The thing is that everyone enters the fortress going sideways. Supes and Lois fly in together that way, and the villains come in that way at the end. Presumably you come and go through the entrance shown in the "power of three" deleted scene.
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Jun 18, 2012 2:33:17 GMT -5
When I decide to commit myself to watching II, I have to watch ALL three versions of it to get the big picture. As I have said elsewhere before, in one cut a scene ends, in another, the same scene is longer.
The blu ray has made TLC more watchable as the footage is less jarring going from RL to RD. Sometimes I settle for it as is, other times I don't.
But yes, IRC needs a clean up and release.
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Jun 18, 2012 14:34:10 GMT -5
incredible that you did it! way better than the other one. i agree with CAM, it is a bit strange the way Supes take flight at the end of scene. a small nitpick nevertheless. keep it up! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 18, 2012 21:06:42 GMT -5
Had not thought of that- it's a great point- I guess it comes under the question of preference vs. accuracy to what might have been done at that time, had Donner stayed on. Any more thoughts on planning for the Metro scene btw?  |
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Post by booshman on Jun 24, 2012 3:20:09 GMT -5
No thoughts on the Metro battle as yet cam. I think when it comes to editing the section itself is when my mind will really be focused on it. Being able to see (on the timeline) what bits I've used and what is available to tinker with really helps me come to decisions much more than pre planning stuff in my head. I did a quick test today to see how feasible it will be to make evil Supes from Superman III, look more like he does in Superman II. I initially tried to get rid of the stubble by blurring it, but it looked crap, so in the end I just used the dodge tool to lighten the skin, and the burn tool to darken the hair.  I'm quite happy with how it's looking at this early stage. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 24, 2012 14:19:25 GMT -5
Boosh, that looks beautiful. I am VERY impressed. To actually see in real life what up until now I could only see in my mind is really, really, emotional for me. Until now I had been saying "Oh it can be fixed with AE" but I never knew if it would actually work, or work well.
This really is amazing. And I'm saving this picture, lol.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 24, 2012 16:46:20 GMT -5
It DOES look extremely cool....but....wondering- is there a way to have that happen over consecutive frames without too much hassle? Or will this be a case of another layer of rotoscoping the face and the hair with the different filters/  |
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Post by booshman on Jun 25, 2012 2:32:29 GMT -5
Boosh, that looks beautiful. I am VERY impressed. To actually see in real life what up until now I could only see in my mind is really, really, emotional for me. Until now I had been saying "Oh it can be fixed with AE" but I never knew if it would actually work, or work well.This really is amazing. And I'm saving this picture, lol. Glad you like it. I wasn't sure how possible it was either, that's why I decided to have a crack now, so I don't hit wall later after going through the task of editing the unfixed footage. The picture was actually done in photoshop, as there's no dodge/ burn tools in AE. It DOES look extremely cool....but....wondering- is there a way to have that happen over consecutive frames without too much hassle? Or will this be a case of another layer of rotoscoping the face and the hair with the different filters/ It would seem that whatever I end up doing with these projects always has a certain level of hassle involved. ;D For this shot to work, I think I'm going to need about 5 layers of roto. One layer with the lightened skin, one with the darkened hair, then a layer for blue, red (maroon), and yellow of the suit. I might get away with one layer for the suit tho, if the colour correction goes ok and the three colours don't mess with each other. Thank fuck they came up wit the roto brush tool! |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 25, 2012 19:10:50 GMT -5
Upon further inspection, I do have one little suggestion. For the lightening of the skin tone, don't let his lips get lighter as well. They should be the same color tone as they are in the original shot. The edit you did makes his lips lighter, and it kinda makes him almost look like one of those "real dolls", lol.
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Post by booshman on Jun 26, 2012 1:06:47 GMT -5
Upon further inspection, I do have one little suggestion. For the lightening of the skin tone, don't let his lips get lighter as well. They should be the same color tone as they are in the original shot. The edit you did makes his lips lighter, and it kinda makes him almost look like one of those "real dolls", lol. Good suggestion. I thought before I tried it out that the original would be a bit too dark and would look like he was wearing lipstick. I was right that it looked odd, but adding the original lips back at 50% opacity looks a lot better. I'll have to take your word for it on the real doll thing, not my area of expertise. ;D  100% opacity on the left, 50% on the right. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 26, 2012 19:01:57 GMT -5
Much better.
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Post by booshman on Jul 23, 2012 23:38:31 GMT -5
I've been doing some editing of the villains release and I'd appreciate some feedback before I put anymore time into it. I've gotten pretty used to how I edited the scene for my last edit, so it's hard to be objective about how I've got it now, I'm not sure if it's working or not. I wanted to use the cue from the Lester version, as a result there are areas without sound effects. You'll also have to use your imagination with any shot featuring the lift instead of the XK-101 rocket. If I go this route, all of the lift shots will be fixed, crappy backgrounds, and the shit Donner Cut Phantom Zone effects replaced. It's very rough, but I just want to know if you think the score works with what is being seen. I'd also like to know how you think it compares to the version in my previous edit. New version: vimeo.com/46268093Older version (Skip to 08.15): vimeo.com/12226462 |
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