Booshman is re-doing his S2 fan cut in HD

[TylerDurden389]

I'm always here to help dude. At this point, I honestly don't care anymore if the "best" fan cut of Superman 2 (and by "best" I mean the one that EVERYONE enjoys the most out of all the rest) has my name under the title. At this point, I think all of us working together to come up with *compromises* and find a *middle ground* that *mostly* everyone *generally* agrees on is the best course of action.

The reason for all the asterisks is because, like I stated months ago, there will ALWAYS be disagreements among us about 4 or 5 of the more important scenes in the film (opening recap, identity reveal, father or mother, and the ending). Because the "magic" of the film has been lost due to 2 versions existing now (remember, before the DC it was generally agreed on by all of us that the RIC was the TRUE sequel), I think that what Selutron was always set on doing was creating a version that "recaptures" the magic that Superman 2 once had (before the tv versions started this anyway), and would put the behind the scenes drama back behind the cameras where it belongs.

However, with Sel being pretty much MIA, I look at Booshman as the new savior. He's taking our ideas/comments into consideration. Remember, this is his fan cut and can do it however he wants. So for him to do that, it means a lot.

Also, I know the feeling of putting in a lot of effort into something and getting no recognition. I went to comic-con here in NYC yesterday dressed as Don Johnson from Miami Vice (my Halloween costume this year) and only had 1 picture taken of me alone (the other pics were with either a guy dressed as Mr. T or a dude dressed as Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future). Compared to last year when I was The Ultimate Warrior and had at least 100 people take my pics, it was crushing to say the least.

Next year I'll do something way more "nerdy", lol.

[crazy_asian_man]

I'm always here to help dude. At this point, I honestly don't care anymore if the "best" fan cut of Superman 2 (and by "best" I mean the one that EVERYONE enjoys the most out of all the rest) has my name under the title. At this point, I think all of us working together to come up with *compromises* and find a *middle ground* that *mostly* everyone *generally* agrees on is the best course of action.

The reason for all the asterisks is because, like I stated months ago, there will ALWAYS be disagreements among us about 4 or 5 of the more important scenes in the film (opening recap, identity reveal, father or mother, and the ending). Because the "magic" of the film has been lost due to 2 versions existing now (remember, before the DC it was generally agreed on by all of us that the RIC was the TRUE sequel), I think that what Selutron was always set on doing was creating a version that "recaptures" the magic that Superman 2 once had (before the tv versions started this anyway), and would put the behind the scenes drama back behind the cameras where it belongs.

However, with Sel being pretty much MIA, I look at Booshman as the new savior. He's taking our ideas/comments into consideration. Remember, this is his fan cut and can do it however he wants. So for him to do that, it means a lot.

Also, I know the feeling of putting in a lot of effort into something and getting no recognition. I went to comic-con here in NYC yesterday dressed as Don Johnson from Miami Vice (my Halloween costume this year) and only had 1 picture taken of me alone (the other pics were with either a guy dressed as Mr. T or a dude dressed as Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future). Compared to last year when I was The Ultimate Warrior and had at least 100 people take my pics, it was crushing to say the least.

Next year I'll do something way more "nerdy", lol.

Thanks for sharing about the costuming adventures, I think I misspoke, though- I don't need any credit (this is after all a thread about Booshman's cut)- but feedback to something that we all love and have little objectivity for is invaluable.

I've borrowed (and will continue to borrow) genius ideas that fans have on things that could make this impossible Donner cut more in the line of what we wished we could have had. I put the video ideas out there, in hopes it 'gives back' or 'opens up' other ideas to help that 'search for the holy grail' of fixing that Donner cut that never got shot.

Many I know are drooling for MOS to come out, but to me, I'm drooling more to know whether or not we'll get anything new for SII.

It's a giant pity that Donner seems very past this and has moved on, it seems like it anyone- he'd be the one who could get a new cut revisited again....

[booshman]

Good to see you back to tinkering with Superman II Cam.

Still not up to the Metro Battle yet, and I reckon it's going to the last thing I get to, since I don't have a clear idea what it's going to be. Also, if I get everything else out of the way, any unused footage is then available for the battle.

I hear you about taking ideas from all over, looking at what others have done over the years can take you in all sorts of directions you might not of though of on your own. Going back to the Mank script is always a good idea too.

Any particular Mank moments you think might be achievable given the footage available?

[TylerDurden389]

Oct 16, 2012 2:35:22 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Many I know are drooling for MOS to come out, but to me, I'm drooling more to know whether or not we'll get anything new for SII.

Agreed, same here. I know almost nothing about MOS except for that "teaser" that didn't really show anything. TBH the only thing that I look forward to for MOS is that I hope that it's well received enough that maybe WB will give S2 another shot. But at the same time, this new Superman era may mean simply forgetting the old. The only shred of hope I still cling onto is that thankfully Selutron DID say that the people at WB were INTERESTED in his ideas (which means they may have plans to revisit S2) they're just not interested "at this time". I'd like to think that good reviews and good BO numbers for MOS will make S2's last revisit "the right time".

Also, Boosh, about the Metro Battle. You said you're not sure what you wanna do with it. Does this mean you're open to the idea of completely changing the structure and pacing of the entire scene? Because if so, I have a very "out there" idea that would dramatically change the ending part of the entire scene, but may make the overall scene better as a whole.

To go back to my idea earlier about Superman spinning Zod around much faster than how it happens in the film. How about we remove the shots of the bystanders standing there laughing (which of course removes any drama or tension from the scene), and use shots of the people being blown away (when the villains use their super breath) instead? Except now the people are being blown away due to Superman's excessive speed that causes massive winds. Obviously you wouldn't need that much footage of them being blown back since Supes only spins Zod around for a few seconds, but a few quick shots that work in the context of Superman's speed getting faster (using some of the earlier shots of people flying away when the villains first start using their super-breath) might make this work.

This idea would take A LOT of tinkering and test runs to get it to work "right", but I think it's worth a shot. Of course it means changing the ending as well. The bystanders wouldn't go after the villains. The villains wouldn't use their super breath. There would have to be a new shot of Superman flying away as well. Or, to go back to the Mank script, the villains tossing aside the bus and seeing a hole that Superman made to get away. For the shot of Supes making the hole, maybe something like the shot of Evil Supes breaking the tires off of him (from the junkyard scene in S3), rotoscoped and digitally altered for his costume color, and placed in a dark shot that looks like he's sandwiched between the bus and truck.

Maybe I'll even mess around with this myself over the weekend and post some clips for everyone. I'm gonna rewatch some scenes from S3 and S4 to see if there's anything that could be rotoscoped that might work.

[crazy_asian_man]

Good to see you back to tinkering with Superman II Cam.

Still not up to the Metro Battle yet, and I reckon it's going to the last thing I get to, since I don't have a clear idea what it's going to be. Also, if I get everything else out of the way, any unused footage is then available for the battle.

I hear you about taking ideas from all over, looking at what others have done over the years can take you in all sorts of directions you might not of though of on your own. Going back to the Mank script is always a good idea too.

Any particular Mank moments you think might be achievable given the footage available?

Thanks Boosh!

Going 'strictly' by the Mank script (except where already shot by Donner, where Donner already made changes) has always been something that I've held as a dream in the back of my mind to see if it COULD be done to reconstruct it- even though the footage doesn't seem to exist in any form and may well be impossible to fabricate...

But-
Fortunately/ unfortunately, of all the sequences that weren't shot, the Mank Metro battle seems to be the one that MIGHT be able to be reassembled with rotoscoping, but it's still a bit of a pain.

Essentially, Mank's version (at least the script version I saw) breaks it down into these actions.... I've bolded which ones seemed to have been shot by Donner or Lester already, and/or be easier possibilities with rotoscoping, I think.

1. Supes on the flagpole, with 'Haven't you heard of freedom of the press?'/etc.
(DONNER)

2. Supes flies off/ Villains break through the wall to chase him.(DONNER)

3. Villains and Supes fly like fighter planes, looking for an opening.
Supes/Zod exchange some words-

4. Zod gestures Non forward to attack first. (in mid-air)

5. Non swings at Supes/ Supes ducks/ Supes turns Non around/ punches Non out of frame.
((DONNER)- sort of)

6. NON hits the Empire State Building/ the top falls off/
(DONNER)

7. Supes lifts up the portion/ People run to safety
(LESTER)

8. NON tackles Supes/pulls Supes off while carrying the portion of the Empire State Building-

I think this could be done with SIV footage, with the bit of Supes carrying the Statue of Liberty, and freaking when he sees Nuclear Man + some Non footage

9. The portion crashes to the ground-

10. NON punches Supes out of frame-
(LESTER closeup?)

11. Supes falls backward and plows through the 42nd street bridge, creating a crater in the process.

12. Supes lies there, stunned.

13. Non flies in for the kill.

14. Police fire on Non, with a SWAT truck on the way.

15. NON uproots a lampost, destroys the SWAT truck with it.

16. NON turns towards Supes, who is still on the ground, and flies towards him.

17. Supes suddenly springs to life and rams Non in the stomach with his head as a battering ram. Maybe SIV moon battle footage?

18. NON shoots up and through a building
(Lester/Donner shot)

19. Supes looking down, starting to freak about the damage done.
Mutters a line about his concern.

20. NON starts after Supes. Supes flies away.
(Lester/Donner shot)

21. NON chases Supes over the East River.
(Lester/Donner shot)

22. Supes pivots around mid-air towards NON.
This might be able to be done, using the pivot in SIV

23. Supes and Non have a head-on crash.

24. Both stagger in mid-air.
Supes' stagger could also be used from SIV

25. Supes recovers first, kicks Non in the behind- Non flies forward-

26. NON hits the Statue of Liberty, knocking the arm off.

27. Supes flies up behind Zod, punches him into a WINSTON sign.

28. Supes looks down at the destruction, suddenly hit by NON out of frame again.
(LESTER/DONNER)

29. Supes goes into the Coca Cola sign, falls off, and down to the ground.

I could see this done- with Switching the Statue of Liberty spin w/ Supes instead, and the fall from SIV.
Update: I have a sample that I'll link here soon.

30. Bus is tossed at Supes.

31. The Villains remove the bus, and see a tunnel drilled through the building.

32. Zod flies in the air, warns people, and flies off with the villains.

So.... a lot could be reconstructed I think with what's there- but the flip side is that there are some good bits that would also get lost, too. The construction yard fight, Ursa's using the flagpole on Non, the ground fight bits.

If anything, though, the main thing that I think got lost in Lester's take on things is that the tone never got as intense as it could have/should have, had it been under Donner's shoot. It looked like Thau couldn't do it with the scraps of footage he got, but I can't help but feel like there's SOME way to achieve that.

Anyhow- that's been sitting on the shelf for a long time, but your work has been getting me thinking on ways to try to generate this, too. Will put up samples, hopefully it helps generates other ideas you may or may not want to use...

In the end, maybe there's also a way to blend both Mank's script and the good stuff existing. Would be nice...

[crazy_asian_man]

Agreed, same here. I know almost nothing about MOS except for that "teaser" that didn't really show anything. TBH the only thing that I look forward to for MOS is that I hope that it's well received enough that maybe WB will give S2 another shot. But at the same time, this new Superman era may mean simply forgetting the old. The only shred of hope I still cling onto is that thankfully Selutron DID say that the people at WB were INTERESTED in his ideas (which means they may have plans to revisit S2) they're just not interested "at this time". I'd like to think that good reviews and good BO numbers for MOS will make S2's last revisit "the right time".

I find myself flip-flopping over whether or not we'd be better off with (if we could only choose one) a dvd-quality IRC cut or a Selutron cut.... but either way, the idea of getting anything more of Donner's SII is shaky, as we're so far out of the loop, but I share your hope with MOS's success making it happen....

[crazy_asian_man]

Another set of ideas...
In keeping more of the existing footage, took a rough assemblage of trying to keep a lot of effects 'in camera'.... and seeing if there were other approaches to add more terror to the Houston cops scene, as well as see if a 'silent' Ursa is more terrifying in the snake scene, or not.

Boosh, I know you had visual and sound fx for Zod to speed the gun away from the deputy, but I thought about the approach of suggesting the superspeed as an alternative- though I still think more shots are needed to really complete this scene, rotoscope or otherwise.

Tyler, I borrowed your idea of using sound effects as the camera pulls back to imply what was going to be more graphic in the Mank script- of the car being crushed by Non.

Anyhow- it's very rough, but hopefully opens up other ideas...

vimeo.com/51580804

updated; the Supes into the cocacola sign, via Mank's script...

vimeo.com/51583852

[TylerDurden389]

CAM, I think for the idea I had of Zod blowing up the car with his heat vision might be possible. The footage I found of that car blowing up worked somewhat, but I think with AE it'd be possible to make the car and scene match the car/surroundings where it was filmed. Even a quick 2 second shot of Zod's heat vision burning through the hood would work (using the angle shot of when Zod is holding the gun before he "shoots himself").

But again, doing this means removing the 2 cops from the next scene. Now, I've seen someone remove Dwayne from that shot of the villains coming outside from the restaurant, so it is possible to do. I still have the video saved to.

Now, your second video of Supes crashing into the neon sign is a good idea, but he needs to fly in a straight line. He kinda "banks left" towards the end, lol. This is also a good idea if, again, Boosh plans on completely re-structuring the fight. It ALSO helps for continuity later on towards the end of the film because the Statue of Liberty torch would still be intact 9if any cityscape shots are used, that is). Maybe even use the shot of Supes collecting himself before flying off again. Sure would be funny to see a 3rd version of Supes crashing into something. First the building air duct 9theatrical version), then the statue of liberty torch (Donner Cut), and now a neon coca-cola sign, lol.

[crazy_asian_man]

CAM, I think for the idea I had of Zod blowing up the car with his heat vision might be possible. The footage I found of that car blowing up worked somewhat, but I think with AE it'd be possible to make the car and scene match the car/surroundings where it was filmed. Even a quick 2 second shot of Zod's heat vision burning through the hood would work (using the angle shot of when Zod is holding the gun before he "shoots himself").

I agree 100%. I think the option is (relatively) easy, if the car blowing up shot is in HD, so it's always available, I think.

In the clip what I was trying to experiment with was Mank's version of the scene of having Non crush the car (or imply that he does if the footage isn't able to be generated) under Zod's rule. It's still possible, reusing the moon footage with rotoscoping, I think, or bts stuff, but I really have to do the accounting on how long it would take

But again, doing this means removing the 2 cops from the next scene. Now, I've seen someone remove Dwayne from that shot of the villains coming outside from the restaurant, so it is possible to do. I still have the video saved to.

That had to be a LOT of work! Is it on youtube? I'd be curious to see that...

Now, your second video of Supes crashing into the neon sign is a good idea, but he needs to fly in a straight line. He kinda "banks left" towards the end, lol. This is also a good idea if, again, Boosh plans on completely re-structuring the fight. It ALSO helps for continuity later on towards the end of the film because the Statue of Liberty torch would still be intact 9if any cityscape shots are used, that is). Maybe even use the shot of Supes collecting himself before flying off again. Sure would be funny to see a 3rd version of Supes crashing into something. First the building air duct 9theatrical version), then the statue of liberty torch (Donner Cut), and now a neon coca-cola sign, lol.

Yeah....from what you mention, I can see now how it would be a bit annoying to see the same repeat shots of Supes crashing into something again, and again, and AGAIN....

(Something I'm finally getting hip to- limiting re-use of the exact same foreground footage). There would have to be a variation of reaction shots by Supes so that it doesn't feel the same each time...

I'm looking at the Mank script and what's existing in the Lester/Donner stuff, and, for myself, just trying to solve the puzzle of how one would retain the spirit of the Mank script with all the available tools at hand nowadays. What's nice is that at least the locations of the Mank script are pretty much giant landmarks, so at least there's a lot of video footage available for 'stock' shots (wonder why they weren't used in the RDC! Would they have been that much to license?)....

[TylerDurden389]

Yeah I agree about scenic shots for backgrounds. Instead Thau used footage that looks like it was shot that year. But FWIW, shots like that in the DC did teach me how it's important to NOT use too much "new" stuff so that it doesn't feel out of place. This is the reason why I'm not too crazy about Boosh's idea of completely re-doing the Metro Battle. Obviously I still love my Supes spinning Zod really fast idea, but I think it's better if only small things are added to "compliment" the scene, rather than try to completely change it. The best example of this is of course, the new shot of Supes pulling the bus off of him and seeing the S on his costume. Little things like that are the right idea. They help "complete" the scene as a whole without making it feel like a different scene/movie.

Heck, if I were a casual viewer watching the DC, I WOULD think it was something shot by Donner in '78, and not something that was shot in 2006.

[booshman]

Oct 18, 2012 18:56:25 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

This is the reason why I'm not too crazy about Boosh's idea of completely re-doing the Metro Battle.

Where did you get that idea from?

[TylerDurden389]

Oct 19, 2012 0:40:55 GMT -5 booshman said:

Oct 18, 2012 18:56:25 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

This is the reason why I'm not too crazy about Boosh's idea of completely re-doing the Metro Battle.

Where did you get that idea from?

Earlier in a post (I think a few days ago) you said "I have no idea what I'm going to do with it", in regards to the Metro battle. My assumption was you planned on completely redoing the sequence from scratch. Mostly because you have both the skills, insight, and vision in which to pull it off. I'm guessing I read you wrong, lol.

[booshman]

Oct 19, 2012 21:21:46 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Oct 19, 2012 0:40:55 GMT -5 booshman said:

Where did you get that idea from?

Earlier in a post (I think a few days ago) you said "I have no idea what I'm going to do with it", in regards to the Metro battle. My assumption was you planned on completely redoing the sequence from scratch. Mostly because you have both the skills, insight, and vision in which to pull it off. I'm guessing I read you wrong, lol.

No idea, was as to the specifics. To create any new moments in the battle, I need to know what footage I have to play with, as I don't want to be re-using stuff, and at the moment I don't know. Hopefully some new ideas can be implemented and old ones tweaked to make them work better. The last thing I want to do though is try to re-do the whole thing, as it's likely to come out as jumbled and fucked up as TDC battle. My main aims are, to have well mixed music cues, (not like the jumping from one to another in TDC); effects that don't stand out as being too modern looking; no slapstick; for it to be entertaining.

[TylerDurden389]

Oct 19, 2012 21:54:44 GMT -5 booshman said:

My main aims are, to have well mixed music cues, (not like the jumping from one to another in TDC); effects that don't stand out as being too modern looking; no slapstick; for it to be entertaining.

Got it. Well, in my earlier S2 fan edits, I chose to use muted DC video with theatrical audio dubbed over it (with Donner Cut shots in place where I felt needed), simply because I feel that the "flow" of the theatrical version is almost fine as-is. Like you said, TDC just feels like one thing jumping to another (like most of the movie for that matter, lol). TBH one of the few things Thau got right for the entire sequence was the removal of the slapstick gags during the end scene with the villains super-breath. And considering how any one of us could have done it the same way, that's not saying much lol.

Although as I've gotten older I find myself actually laughing during that part whenever I watch the RIC. Lester IS a great director, just not right for Superman. Same goes for Schumaker and the Batman sequels, but I digress...

[TylerDurden389]

Here's a video I just made to help everyone get an idea of how I "see" my Supes spins Zod edit in my mind. Boosh, I hope this helps give you some ideas as well. After editing this video I've retracted my idea of the bystanders being blown back from the winds caused by Supes' fast spinning. Without an establishing shot of people starting to fly back, as well as the reaction shots from the crowd being way too short, I feel the idea simply doesn't work. So I've decided to keep the reaction shots as-is. Also note that the main shot of Zod flying backwards is in slow motion only to try to keep the audio in sync. The finished shot would require Zod to fly back at a much faster speed (faster than in the theatrical), and much further away (The Coco-Cola sign would need to be much further away, I mean).

[crazy_asian_man]

Here's a video I just made to help everyone get an idea of how I "see" my Supes spins Zod edit in my mind.

That's cool to see--- From what you'd described before, this matches in my head what you had in mind. The irritating thing about executing this (that I can see), though, without the background also speeding up, would be having to rotoscope not only Supes & Zod (the foreground objects), but also having to fill-in the blank areas once you CUT OUT Supes & Zod--- which is the only way I could think about doing it properly*, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm far from knowing all the trick of Aftereffects.... so there might be a way to do it without the background also speeding up besides this, but I don't know it....

(*Part of this is why there's a car inserted into the background of the Zod 'toss', to cover the blank areas of the background when the dummy spinning zod was cut out of the frames in the vid sample I put up!)

But, still thinking and doing research on fx, I don't think it's impossible..... but just trying to figure out an easier way to do it...

[crazy_asian_man]

No idea, was as to the specifics. To create any new moments in the battle, I need to know what footage I have to play with, as I don't want to be re-using stuff, and at the moment I don't know. Hopefully some new ideas can be implemented and old ones tweaked to make them work better. The last thing I want to do though is try to re-do the whole thing, as it's likely to come out as jumbled and fucked up as TDC battle. My main aims are, to have well mixed music cues, (not like the jumping from one to another in TDC); effects that don't stand out as being too modern looking; no slapstick; for it to be entertaining.

I'm curious, Boosh... have you considered or tried (I'm still struggling with it myself) fx face replacement on flying footage to make it sort-of 'new' footage? Out of the Selutron stuff I've seen, the most distracting to me has to be the head-pastes that don't seem to work, despite being nice ideas....

[booshman]

Oct 20, 2012 18:50:22 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I'm curious, Boosh... have you considered or tried (I'm still struggling with it myself) fx face replacement on flying footage to make it sort-of 'new' footage? Out of the Selutron stuff I've seen, the most distracting to me has to be the head-pastes that don't seem to work, despite being nice ideas....

I've not had a go myself. I'm sure it could work, but I've yet to see it done 100% convincingly. Not really sure of any specific places it would be necessary either.

Oct 20, 2012 9:47:23 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Here's a video I just made to help everyone get an idea of how I "see" my Supes spins Zod edit in my mind. Boosh, I hope this helps give you some ideas as well. After editing this video I've retracted my idea of the bystanders being blown back from the winds caused by Supes' fast spinning. Without an establishing shot of people starting to fly back, as well as the reaction shots from the crowd being way too short, I feel the idea simply doesn't work. So I've decided to keep the reaction shots as-is. Also note that the main shot of Zod flying backwards is in slow motion only to try to keep the audio in sync. The finished shot would require Zod to fly back at a much faster speed (faster than in the theatrical), and much further away (The Coco-Cola sign would need to be much further away, I mean).

I've had a look and I think it's possible to get a complete loop of the shot of Supes spinning Zod in close-up. I wasn't keen on the idea when you were suggesting a blur as they were spinning, but a bit faster might work alright. Rotoscoping the the crowd for the wide shot will be too much of a ball-ache, but I think speeding it up towards the end of the wide shot would work fine. Even with the crowd in shot, it's what they would have don back in the day, just like when Supes spins through the pavement in STM, and the bystanders speed up too. I'll get a rough shot done and folk can chime in as to whether it's working or not. There's a possibility that the shot of the laughing woman in the car could be able to be eliminated too.

Check out something I spotted while I was tinkering, never noticed it at normal speed before.

[Jimbo]

Good catch.

The FOS was a poor seamstress. ;D

[crazy_asian_man]

;D
Great catch, Booshman!
I'd add to the cheapness factor that Lester allowed:

If you take a look at two frames:
#1: the spot where Ursa throws the manhole at Supes- it never actually hits him, and you can see it's drawn in rather than being a practical effect (though, to be fair, the sound and the speed of the shot sells the idea enough).

Another spot of price savings:
#2: When you see the bus 'hit' Supes, you can actually see a red CAPE taped to to the Bus model when it hits him if you freeze-frame it. Not a mannequin. Just a red cape. Cheap Lester!!!

*sigh*

[booshman]

When he flies back from being hit with the cover, his cape looks odd, like there's something underneath it, specifically the yellow \S/. Also when he hits the windscreen, you can see the device holding the manhole cover to his waste, and his cape is pinned to it too.

Never noticed the cape stuck to the bus before, that is about as cheap as you can get!

[SGB]

Oct 24, 2012 17:21:09 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Another spot of price savings:
#2: When you see the bus 'hit' Supes, you can actually see a red CAPE taped to to the Bus model when it hits him if you freeze-frame it. Not a mannequin. Just a red cape. Cheap Lester!!!

*sigh*

Holy heck, never noticed that one before!

Excellent catch.

[Jimbo]

Oct 25, 2012 0:25:44 GMT -5 booshman said:

When he flies back from being hit with the cover, his cape looks odd, like there's something underneath it, specifically the yellow \S/. Also when he hits the windscreen, you can see the device holding the manhole cover to his waste, and his cape is pinned to it too.

Never noticed the cape stuck to the bus before, that is about as cheap as you can get!

Considering no one really noticed it for over 30 years, it was a cost-effective and successful cheat.

[crazy_asian_man]

Considering no one really noticed it for over 30 years, it was a cost-effective and successful cheat.

Mmmm.... I noticed it before, just never brought it up for some reason.


Still.... it's interesting to note that under Lester, there are a TON of shortcuts one notices to cut the budget, whereas under Donner.... not so much.

*sigh*

[Jimbo]

Well, that *is* what Lester was brought in to do. Finish the movie as quickly as possible and within the budget. It's Donner's fault it got to that point.