Booshman is re-doing his S2 fan cut in HD

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 23, 2011 16:07:46 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

It will be included with the box set of Star Wars theatrical version Blu-rays and the restored cut of The Magnificent Ambersons.

[Knight]

Any more work on this?

[TylerDurden389]

We have the last shot for when he's flying away.

vimeo.com/32662808

[Knight]

Good,good... keep it up!

[crazy_asian_man]

The sequence looks great! I think it does echo the feeling of the best part of Superman III - where Supes transforms from EvilSupes to Superman and the bit in STM where Supes breaks through the ceiling of Luthor's HQ to chase after the missile....

I think it's a great sequence that's created, definitely with some 'oomph' to it- (The crystal surface breaking helps a lot). Can't wait to see the final result!

[Knight]

Yea,definitely. Why the heck something like this wasn't shot or even considered is beyond me...

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 27, 2011 7:53:28 GMT -5 Knight said:

Yea,definitely. Why the heck something like this wasn't shot or even considered is beyond me...

Lol I think our lengthy discussions here for the past 8 years or so have made it crystal clear why a scene like this wasn't created. The first time, it was budget and time. With the Donner Cut, budget and time. I'm not gonna waste any more time complaining about what happened and what could've been. History is history.

I have no doubts that Donner really would've made Superman 2 even better than the first. Considering how much got changed while they were shooting the first one, I know a lot of the things Donner shot for 2 in the DC would've been scrapped. Again, this is why I don't look at the Donner shot scenes as the 'better" scenes. Or the script. I know the script doesn't say anything about a scene like this. "Donner wanted the scene to end ambiguously so that Supes' return later at the DP has more weight". I simply don't believe this idea. If Donner thought that way, we'd probably not have even got the fly-by after his training in STM. Donner would've had the segue' through Jor-el's crystal eye go from outer space, to the Metropolis skyline. Saving Supes' big reveal for the Lois and helicopter rescue.

For me it's a matter of what works as far as tone. Which is usually taking clips from both versions and further "tweaking" them to get the tone to where I feel it matches STM. Examples from my *still unfinished* fan cut:

-Adding the "Lois takes the plunge music" to the DC DP jump. While also re-arranging the sequence when Supes is on the ground (he doesn't blow his super breath twice), switching "You wouldn't let me die Superman" for "Bye, bye baby", replacing the "stock" woman screaming sound effects for REAL Margot screams from either STM or the river scene. And of course, synching the audio and visual so that she jumps out the window the moment the main fanfare kicks in.

- Adding in RIC dialogue "And you will have everything you want", "Men, to KILL!!" for the shot of the villains flying away off of the moon. (Though I may scrap this idea, as the audio has never been where I want it to be).

- Keeping the Hotel scene but removing Lois saying why they're there (as Perry already said it in the earlier scene) by fading in their dialogue as the camera pans from the water fall (fading out the sound of the water as their voices fade in) to the hotel. Then cutting to the inside when Lois opens the curtains.

- Adding the music from STM when Supes almost reveals his identity to Lois (after their first date) to the scene when Supes explains his past and talks about the green crystal. It adds more emotion to the scene. Especially as it fades out and plays a bit of the "Lois' theme as Supes says "So what do you think? You like it?". It's funny to me because the music implies Superman is starting to get a feeling for domestic life. Having a woman in his house and all.

- Re-arranging the dialogue for the argument Supes has with Jor-el so that the dialogue flows better, Supes' intentions are much clearer (like they were in the theatrical when he speaks to his mother), reaction shots/faces are used in better context, and to remove those painfully long moments of silence that kill any drama that the scene is having.

- Dubbing Reeve with his own theatrical voice for the DC speech when he calls out to his father. I removed the "Life of servitude in a world ruled by your enemies...." stuff, as I felt this dialogue was a little too "on the nose". Whereas the theatrical kept it much simpler and effective.

- "I expect, better manners from my guests, Zod" added into the DC scene before Supes walks out of the chamber. Then cut to "Let Ms. Lane go". Much better than "I'm here Zod".

- As my more recent video has shown, re-dubbing Supes and Lois with their RIC dialogue counterparts, with the better, happier music. It makes the idea of Lois being ok knowing his secret much easier for the audience to swallow in the context of my ending of my fan cut where she knows the truth.

Just some examples lol.

[TylerDurden389]

Oh, and Boosh has replaced most of the dvd shots with blu-ray shots, and is using the actual clips for the b.g. images instead of single frames. He also used some different flying shots. Works a lot better IMO.

vimeo.com/32735783

[Knight]

Yea,I know the budget and various constraints capped II a lot. ''Cheaper By The Sequel''

-was just thinking out a loud as it's a shame.

[crazy_asian_man]

I know the script doesn't say anything about a scene like this. "Donner wanted the scene to end ambiguously so that Supes' return later at the DP has more weight". I simply don't believe this idea. If Donner thought that way, we'd probably not have even got the fly-by after his training in STM. Donner would've had the segue' through Jor-el's crystal eye go from outer space, to the Metropolis skyline. Saving Supes' big reveal for the Lois and helicopter rescue.

This is one of the few times -with all due respect - that I respectfully disagree with Tyler... I could be totally wrong, of course (Only Donner would know)- but if he reshot the Jorel repowering scene.... I think the main thing that would have come across was the giant loss of Jorel's existence after that moment--- to save his son.

With the Training in STM- it wasn't connected to a 'death', nor was the helicopter rescue. To me, it was going to /should have felt tonally more like the death of Pa Kent scene.... it was going to be more of a scene that was solemn following the death--- but the way that Thau cut it, it was too fast and the music choices were so odd, you don't really get that same feeling.

In any case, the idea of the breaking through the rooftop works great, and the choice of shots (Tyler had mentioned them to me, but actually seeing the whole thing almost put together is a much higher level)- is fantastic- it does look and feel like a real sequence that follows right afterwards..... and I know just how difficult it is to be able to reconstruct a scene from bits that weren't initially meant to be strung together.

Again, excited to see how the final version comes out.

[crazy_asian_man]

Yea,I know the budget and various constraints capped II a lot. ''Cheaper By The Sequel''

-was just thinking out a loud as it's a shame.

Funny thing is:
Based on the script--- outside of cheapening the Metro battle-

If Donner didn't get one penny more than Lester got to shoot....
We STILL would have had a much better film.

#1: The WAYYY over the top sight gags in the metro battle I think would have been gone-

SCENES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN RELATIVELY (I THINK) CHEAP TO COMPLETE OR SHOOT:

#2: The 'villains land'/crush the sheriff's car in the desert'- wouldn't have cost nearly as much as the East Houston stuff--- and gets more to the point.

#3: The Rushmore sequence was paid for..... I reallly wonder why the heck we didn't see Donner's version of it, if everything was blue screened and shot. (But perhaps not composited)

#4: Most of the character bits in the fortress of solitude: 'Supes/Lois first kiss in the fortress/home movies'- Refering to the Mankiewicz script- two actors, the Fortress location. (Though I don't know how much of a battle it would have been that the Fortress architecture had to look different for the studio warehouse change from STM to SII)

#5: Honeymoon Haven/two scenes not shot: the entering the hotel & first character scene (where Lois PUSHES/DARES Clark to kiss her, never shot) and the second one (the infamous screen test).... would have gone a long way to making Lois seem more likeable and smart, and less bitchy as in Lester's version.

The use of Jorel, though.....who knows how that would have played out. In another alternate universe where Donner stayed, I wonder if Donner would have recast under pressure.

But in any case, even without more money, the way the Mank script is, even the character scenes without big fx would have made SII a far better film than the tonally wrong Lester ones.

Donner made a film with different tones for STM that all came together, but unfortunately it opened the door for someone else to either make it more serious or less serious--- and Lester chose to do things more like his own films, with comedy shtick. Pity it came at a cost of making one of the leads unlikeable and cheapening the weight of the story.

[Conor]

The SIII carrying the lake shot has to go. Far too slow when the emphasis is him racing to Metropolis to stop Zod and more so when it took him so long to get to the FOS to begin with. Also, the shot of Supes from SIII when he is recovering from the light Kryptonite getting his breath back takes away from the reveal moment from the junkyard scene. But I still love the idea.

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 27, 2011 12:37:59 GMT -5 Conor said:

The SIII carrying the lake shot has to go. Far too slow when the emphasis is him racing to Metropolis to stop Zod and more so when it took him so long to get to the FOS to begin with. Also, the shot of Supes from SIII when he is recovering from the light Kryptonite getting his breath back takes away from the reveal moment from the junkyard scene. But I still love the idea.

I feel the close-up of his face brings some suspense to this moment (meaning it isn't all about the "speed" part). However I'm glad you pointed out the medium shot of him catching his breath has to go. After seeing a few drafts Booshman had done, I began thinking the same thing as well. I'm gonna mention this to him. See if there's any way around this while still keeping the other parts after it still synched up and cued the same way.

And CAM, you may be right. Maybe I just feel this way because the whole drama of the scene (Jor-el dying) doesn't work because of how horribly it was put together by Thau. Now, if we had something like the shot YOU made with the close-up of Reeve from "Somewhere in Time" edited so that we see him lying face-down in the snow, and if a different and sadder music cue was used, THEN I would scrap this re-powering scene altogether. Or move it to after the next scene back at the planet. OR, do the theatrical fade from the diner to Clark outside, end the scene with him sad in the snow. Go to the white house. Go to the planet. Then after Lois says "Yeah, better than anybody", cut to the fortress exterior, fortress interior (it's quiet right now), THEN reveal Superman re-powered and kick the music into high gear.

Or would all the going back and forth between characters/locations be too jarring? lol

One last thing, Booshman has been trying to join us for about a week and a half now, and it says his account is activated, but he told me when he tries to post he gets this message:

"Currently your account is waiting for approval from a staff member. Once an administrator has approved your account you will get access to this forum.".

Can you guys help him out? I contacted Bobby M. because it said he was administrator, but now I see that Jimbo and Maverick are as well. I'm guessing the move from supermancinema to capedwonder has slowed down this process, right?

[Knight]

I think (personally) the catching breath bit is very good,however... the long shot of him standing up is very quick,not needed. The point is made by the footage.

Yea,SIII ''ice'' is unnecessary too.

But,keep it up though great work!

[crazy_asian_man]

I feel the close-up of his face brings some suspense to this moment (meaning it isn't all about the "speed" part). However I'm glad you pointed out the medium shot of him catching his breath has to go. After seeing a few drafts Booshman had done, I began thinking the same thing as well. I'm gonna mention this to him. See if there's any way around this while still keeping the other parts after it still synched up and cued the same way.

And CAM, you may be right. Maybe I just feel this way because the whole drama of the scene (Jor-el dying) doesn't work because of how horribly it was put together by Thau. Now, if we had something like the shot YOU made with the close-up of Reeve from "Somewhere in Time" edited so that we see him lying face-down in the snow, and if a different and sadder music cue was used, THEN I would scrap this re-powering scene altogether. Or move it to after the next scene back at the planet. OR, do the theatrical fade from the diner to Clark outside, end the scene with him sad in the snow. Go to the white house. Go to the planet. Then after Lois says "Yeah, better than anybody", cut to the fortress exterior, fortress interior (it's quiet right now), THEN reveal Superman re-powered and kick the music into high gear.

Or would all the going back and forth between characters/locations be too jarring? lol

One last thing, Booshman has been trying to join us for about a week and a half now

Would be great to see Booshman on the board, hopefully things get worked out.

Regarding the closeups/taking a breath/long shot: I love every shot chosen so far, the only shot I'm not crazy about is the last one with the closeup when he carries the ice. I get the idea, and it's a good expression, but I just didn't like how Lester shot it....so, it's a pettier reason.

I get you on jumping back and forth to the DP "Better than anyone" as a possible variation of going back and forth between the before/after, but I agree with your afterthought that it might be too jarring.... if nothing else, I'm starting to realize that the going back and forth for MOST of Lester's cut was pretty good in terms of pacing scenes.

The good part of the 20 (?) seconds or so that follows at the tail end of the repowering- is that it might be just too short to have as a 'standalone' scene- and enhances the repowering as one whole event with an exclamation point, to give it a sense of being epic (something the RDC somehow missed....I think it is more of the mismatching music and how the final moment is edited of the transformation--- I compare it to Donner/Baird's "Ladyhawke" which came shortly after, when there would be key emotionally charged sequences, where we'd see closeups of eyes reacting or something to make you feel more--- I totally agree that the repowering as edited just doesn't have the 'juice' it should have had- though Donner also says on the commentary that he would have wanted Brando to come back as well)

Anyhow--- on a side note, "Monsignor" with Reeve is being released on dvd-quality in February of next year..... maybe there are closeups there that can be used as well?

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 27, 2011 14:22:29 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

"Monsignor" with Reeve is being released on dvd-quality in February of next year..... maybe there are closeups there that can be used as well?

Doubtful. He plays a priest, and is probably in the appropriate cloth throughout the film. TBH, I'm grateful you were able to make the "S.I.T." and "Deathtrap" shots work. But regardless, the reason why I'm having second thoughts about the firefox footage is because I no longer think using clips from other films is the way to go anymore. Regardless of what Selutron did, and regardless with how forgotten the films are (be it firefox, the swarm, etc..). I feel that any *completely* new scenes from other sources would stick out too much now. The novelty of what Sel did has worn off, and it's time to start thinking about this more realistically. Especially if we do plan on doing this as a way for WB to re-visit S2 one last time.

Wishful thinking, I know. But I feel the book shouldn't be closed yet. Because now my mind set is, I hate to think that years from now, all the work, time and effort we've ALL put into this is long forgotten,. And the two official releases is what the stores will always sell.

TBH, I think that Sel never actually planned on using those clips he showed us. He was very smart about what he did, and was well aware that securing licensing for those clips would've been difficult, if not impossible. That all being said, I think, after this new fan edit is all said and done, we should let the people at capedwonder see this, as well as Selutron. If he really has the pull to get the motor running for them to re-do S2, I think we all need to work together and reach mutual understandings.

That or heck will freeze over, lol.

[crazy_asian_man]

Doubtful. He plays a priest, and is probably in the appropriate cloth throughout the film. TBH, I'm grateful you were able to make the "S.I.T." and "Deathtrap" shots work. But regardless, the reason why I'm having second thoughts about the firefox footage is because I no longer think using clips from other films is the way to go anymore. Regardless of what Selutron did, and regardless with how forgotten the films are (be it firefox, the swarm, etc..). I feel that any *completely* new scenes from other sources would stick out too much now. The novelty of what Sel did has worn off, and it's time to start thinking about this more realistically. Especially if we do plan on doing this as a way for WB to re-visit S2 one last time.

Wishful thinking, I know. But I feel the book shouldn't be closed yet. Because now my mind set is, I hate to think that years from now, all the work, time and effort we've ALL put into this is long forgotten,. And the two official releases is what the stores will always sell.

TBH, I think that Sel never actually planned on using those clips he showed us. He was very smart about what he did, and was well aware that securing licensing for those clips would've been difficult, if not impossible. That all being said, I think, after this new fan edit is all said and done, we should let the people at capedwonder see this, as well as Selutron. If he really has the pull to get the motor running for them to re-do S2, I think we all need to work together and reach mutual understandings.

That or heck will freeze over, lol.

The reason I mention "Monsignor" is that, now, due to tech that exists, it's easy to replace and track facial expressions on different bodies- (or at least relatively easy, according to the free tutorials on the web- in theory, still have not actually tried face replacement yet... although the "Routh Superman vs. Hulk-Doomsday" video had a trickle of blood rotoscoped/tracked on Routh's face that was very convincing on the computer screen....so, that's the idea, if Booshman was looking into it at all...

What sticks out to me most in watching STM and SII is just how much Lester derailed Donner's vision, and I lose a sense of the magic that Donner worked so hard to achieve in the first one.

Some of what Selutron did I think is amazing and seamless, based on the clips (the stuff improving the DP jump sequence and the stuff with the Criminals and the General come to mind)--- even though a couple of bits do stand out as a little too much (the 'freezing' of the soldiers on the front lawn of the White House, the look of the crystal in the FOS)....

The story and the characters and...yeah... the proper tone is what's missing from both cuts- and to me, as a viewer of others' stuff, I'm more forgiving of some of the footage from other films integrated in--- depending on the story. I'll take Selutron's "Swarm" footage over Lester's East Houston hijinx and Lester's ice cream jokes anyday...

[Knight]

I watch STM practically with a grin from ear to ear if am not in awe of the beautiful cinematography and such.

With II all that is gone... except when I watch the RIC (and an edited version in the DC) of Lois and Superman outside the FOS,goodbye kiss and then the tearful farewell....

''your secret is safe with me'' balcony. If am watching the DC ''well,there he goes again... up,up and away.'' that always gets me. If any one else said that line it would have been pure corn ball,cringe worthy awful. But Margo and Donner played that beautifully.

When I first seen the screen test of Margo as Lois in the hotel reveal, the moment she looks at Clark and says: ''...I must have known that the longest time''. -that was another one of them lines that resonates. Excellent.

I love how smart,sassy Donner and Margo played it...which,of course reflects the writing. Very clever,well timed and performed. The cunning reveal blank bullets...brilliant.

Then in comes Lester, pisses all over the above adds close ups of an ash tray,a smoke hanging from Margo's lip throughout and an
awful re-write of a beautiful script. Even Clark knocking on the door got included into that scene in TDP.

I really prefare the hotel scene,when she says to CK: ''Look in the mirror''. He sighs,he actually looks away,drops his shoulders from his own appearance! amazing! - (we have all felt like that at one point) ''your potentially this dynamite guy...''

oh,if only that had been filmed.

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 27, 2011 17:04:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I'll take Selutron's "Swarm" footage over Lester's East Houston hijinx and Lester's ice cream jokes anyday...

See, I used to think this way. But now I just feel that showing those Selutron scenes would be too much for casual viewers to grasp. On the other hand, Sel's "post-time travel" I STILL believe works and belongs in the film. Considering the few special effects he added, the rest is all actual footage in the first film, simply with different music and arrangement of scenes. If I had to list/rate which Sel scenes can stay, and which should go, in chronological order:

1. Post-time travel: 10/10. This scene not only bridges the 2 films together, not only explains what the heck Supes did, but it also brings full circle Jor-el's warning of interfering with human history AND his talk about how the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few (Superman choosing to save Lois while endangering the rest of humanity by accidentally releasing the villains).

2. Supes to Clark: 9/10 .Assuming the flying shots he used for this scene wouldn't be re-used later in the film, I am *pretty much* for this scene, but don't feel it's 100% necessary. To me it may be nothing more than simply seeing Supes in his suit for a few more moments.

3. Lex at Fortress: 10/10 This one works well because it's a "best of both worlds". We get Jor-el instead of Lara, but we still get the crystal, which is still familiar to casual viewers.

4. Blank bullets-pink bear combo: 0/10 as is, 5/10 if it can be done better visually now than at the time Sel made it, as well as have the scene fleshed out better. This was one of the few Sel clips I was always unsure about, but I threw it in my cut anyway. Even if the effects could be done better, I still don't think it would work. We have Reeve from one scene interacting with Kidder from another scene. Not to mention we don't even see Reeve's face after Lois shoots him and he has his conflicted emotions. This is unfortunate, because script-wise this idea works best AND this is one of the most important scenes in the film.

5. Home movies: 7/10. Again, a great idea that isn't TOO "out there", but unfortunately, there really isn't any usable footage that they can watch. Sel did what he could using the clip that he did, as well as giving Supes and Lois the proper reaction expressions, but if there's no way to really make this work, then it's a waste of time to create. I suppose you could take Sel's scene here and replace the footage of Jor-el and Lara with Jor-el giving his speech about "remember your special heritage...sense of pride...my only son...etc", but TBH I'd rather this scene not be in the film because the only Lois reaction shots that are usable are needed later for the depowering.

6. Villains in D.C. 2/10. I've already stated my opinion towards using scenes from other films. Also, while Sel's version of this removes the camp, because there's no people around there is no suspense either. Now granted I understand the government would've cleared everyone outta there long before the villains landed, so this makes sense in that regard. But again, no lives at stake=no drama/suspense. For all it's camp in Idaho, there were people who could've died in the scene (sorry for sounding so morbid, but you guys understand the context with which I say all this right? lol)

BONUS - Concorde scene: 8/10. Another great idea, but not necessary. If Booshman was to do this, I'd imagine the concorde and 'supes to clark' scenes would be combined the same way CAM did it.

So there's my take. Looking at it now, I guess I am still very much in favor of most of Sel's ideas. Just not the D.C. stuff or the identity reveal. Which is unfortunate since that's where Sel's ideas really shine and help the film.

[Knight]

Just thought,how about using the flying shot from the end of STM,the one after Superman leaves Lois and jimmy by the car in the desert, before going to get Lex.

?

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 27, 2011 21:13:25 GMT -5 Knight said:

Just thought,how about using the flying shot from the end of STM,the one after Superman leaves Lois and jimmy by the car in the desert, before going to get Lex?

I know I'm gonna sound like a hypocrite here since all those shots in my proposed repowering scene are from previous shots either from S1 or S3, but I'd rather not use shots "as-is". I feel that rotoscoping helps provide the illusion a little easier. Also, I used to re-use shots as-is in my previous drafts of my fancut. I don't wanna do that anymore. It looks too easy to me now. It looks like amateur editing.

Anyway, Booshman removed the medium shot (I agree wit you guys. It doesn't belong and removes the weight of the close-up). He also removed ice-sheet face close-up, and I'm happy to say I can part with it as well. Longer flying shots works better at the loss of the dramatic face. Though I'd like to think that maybe it can be used later in the Metropolis battle.

vimeo.com/32766471

This latest one uses the shot from STM that Dickie Donner suggested earlier.

vimeo.com/32767310

[Conor]

Much much better. I love number 11. Really really good. Is he going to recolour Reeve's suit from the evil Supes shot?

[Knight]

Yea,11 is excellent. Like the extra ''take off'' shot that's there too,good.

[crazy_asian_man]

TBH, I think that Sel never actually planned on using those clips he showed us. He was very smart about what he did, and was well aware that securing licensing for those clips would've been difficult, if not impossible.

Well...."the Swarm" actually was considered such a HUGE flop at the time, that it might not be as hard to license that footage as we might think--- I couldn't even identify it until Tyler mentioned what it was, but thought the 70's footage matched SO well with the movie, that I was awestruck- and inspired since then editing wise how much matching filmmaking from around the same time frame makes such a giant difference.

First off, I think WB has to be interested in doing it--- then, presumably, they'd check with Donner before it goes any further.... but- who knows? It's so frustrating not knowing what REALLY goes on behind WB's locked creative doors....

[crazy_asian_man]

1. Post-time travel: 10/10. This scene not only bridges the 2 films together, not only explains what the heck Supes did, but it also brings full circle Jor-el's warning of interfering with human history AND his talk about how the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few (Superman choosing to save Lois while endangering the rest of humanity by accidentally releasing the villains).

Personally, I'm divided on it... I'd like to think that Donner/Mank would have addressed the time-reversal in the sequel- but from looking at some of Donner's endings from his other movies.... sometimes he DOESN'T plug all the holes in his films, where he does have creative control. They might have chosen to ignore it, had they come back....

2. Supes to Clark: 9/10 .Assuming the flying shots he used for this scene wouldn't be re-used later in the film, I am *pretty much* for this scene, but don't feel it's 100% necessary. To me it may be nothing more than simply seeing Supes in his suit for a few more moments.

I think it is necessary to see Clark walking and entering the building on the ground level, to give the fall by Lois a few minutes later more 'punch'. Can't explain exactly why, but it feels better with this in, imo.

3. Lex at Fortress: 10/10 This one works well because it's a "best of both worlds". We get Jor-el instead of Lara, but we still get the crystal, which is still familiar to casual viewers.

I like parts of what Selutron did, but ultimately, I would have just preferred that Selutron just tried to echo what was done in STM with Brando.

4. Blank bullets-pink bear combo: 0/10 as is, 5/10 if it can be done better visually now than at the time Sel made it, as well as have the scene fleshed out better. This was one of the few Sel clips I was always unsure about, but I threw it in my cut anyway. Even if the effects could be done better, I still don't think it would work. We have Reeve from one scene interacting with Kidder from another scene. Not to mention we don't even see Reeve's face after Lois shoots him and he has his conflicted emotions. This is unfortunate, because script-wise this idea works best AND this is one of the most important scenes in the film.

It's certainly ambitious--- and a nice way to TRY to get the screen test script sortof worked in.... I just don't understand how/why they couldn't have worked out other ways to have cut the screentest so that it's not SO awkward in continuity/etc.--- oh well.... but I agree- it ultimately is a nice effort, but is probably even more jarring than Thau's assembly.

5. Home movies: 7/10. Again, a great idea that isn't TOO "out there", but unfortunately, there really isn't any usable footage that they can watch. Sel did what he could using the clip that he did, as well as giving Supes and Lois the proper reaction expressions, but if there's no way to really make this work, then it's a waste of time to create. I suppose you could take Sel's scene here and replace the footage of Jor-el and Lara with Jor-el giving his speech about "remember your special heritage...sense of pride...my only son...etc", but TBH I'd rather this scene not be in the film because the only Lois reaction shots that are usable are needed later for the depowering.

Suprisingly, I grew to like this section that Selutron did. I hear you on not wanting to overuse footage, though...

6. Villains in D.C. 2/10. I've already stated my opinion towards using scenes from other films. Also, while Sel's version of this removes the camp, because there's no people around there is no suspense either. Now granted I understand the government would've cleared everyone outta there long before the villains landed, so this makes sense in that regard. But again, no lives at stake=no drama/suspense. For all it's camp in Idaho, there were people who could've died in the scene (sorry for sounding so morbid, but you guys understand the context with which I say all this right? lol)

I respectfully disagree- I thought that much of it worked just as much as the better part of the Lester Houston attack- that if there's a way to get closeups of the army soldiers in the helicopters before they blow up, it could/would juice up the alarm--- or cutting to the generals' disappointment and fear that's watching the whole thing unfold from the "Swarm" footage that Selutron was lifting it from...

BONUS - Concorde scene: 8/10. Another great idea, but not necessary. If Booshman was to do this, I'd imagine the concorde and 'supes to clark' scenes would be combined the same way CAM did it.

Loved that scene- I figure that it replaces the missing lighter appearance of Superman and the Fox chase in England that was supposed to happen before the DP stuff....

So there's my take. Looking at it now, I guess I am still very much in favor of most of Sel's ideas. Just not the D.C. stuff or the identity reveal. Which is unfortunate since that's where Sel's ideas really shine and help the film.

Pity if Sel's work results in no extra look at revisiting the RDC at all and improving upon it, even by one iota....

Wondering, too..... is WB going to do ANYTHING with the old Donner films in terms of new extras to tie in with MOS? You'd think that there'd be SOMETHING new mentioned on the horizon.....