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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 28, 2011 9:15:56 GMT -5
i can understand if no one remembers the movie "swarm", and editing out Michael caine is one thing. but for me it's katherine ross who sticks out as well. her being from 'the graduate' and all.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 28, 2011 14:19:48 GMT -5
Simple solution....simply rotoscope her out of "The Graduate" for a fan cut of that film as well. Problem solved.  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 28, 2011 14:33:36 GMT -5
Simple solution....simply rotoscope her out of "The Graduate" for a fan cut of that film as well. Problem solved. As well as "The Final Countdown" lol. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 29, 2011 12:54:45 GMT -5
I was unsure about the STM take-off shot when Boosh first tried it, but I'm convinced now. This is how Boosh feels the scene should play out, so there probably won't be any more rough edits of this scene, as he wants to get to work on the outline now. vimeo.com/32833584I like how the new "moment" isn't him opening his eyes, but us, the audience, seeing Superman standing up. THEN the take-off. Booshman's rough outline on the "Home Movies' scene. His choice of music for this scene is even better than the music cues CAM and I chose. This is the music when Superman first sees the FOS, now it the music when Lois first sees it to. Nice way of tying it all together (between the first and second films) as well as bringing the 2 characters closer together. Also, it helps alleviate the "alienated and disconnected' reaction Lois gives him while he explains his past. I'd like to see that reaction shot removed, but we may be stuck with it. vimeo.com/32833584 |
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 29, 2011 14:02:48 GMT -5
edit #13 is excellent! great use of shots,music...good work all.  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 29, 2011 14:10:28 GMT -5
I'm glad you and I agree on it DD. The more of us that can unanimously agree on things/ideas, the better the fan cut will be received. Now we just gotta re-convince those who feel Supes should leave Lois on the balcony in tears is the only way to end the movie properly. Though I wonder if maybe this really was all Selutron was talking about all along. I showed my 2 edits on how to end it on the other board (you guys here have already seen them both). Thankfully Booshman says the flag return IS the end of his cut, and IMO the best ending. Regardless of what I did with my old Paris hydrogen bomb cliffhanger in my earlier edits. Since I look at "Superman Redeemed' as the true 3rd part of my "Reeve-erse trilogy", that scene has to stay in that fan cut. Not in mine lol.
Considering the editor who made "Redeemed" hasn't re-done in it HD, I might PM him when I get the proper tools, and ask if I can do it for him. Assuming he doesn't plan on doing it himself someday.
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 29, 2011 14:20:08 GMT -5
I know what you mean,it took us three pages to agree on the shots for this one scene, imagine a full film lol!
The tearful balcony scene is a good way to end/flying the flag etc...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 29, 2011 14:59:52 GMT -5
The 'home movies' is great- although with both this, and Selutron's version, the location of the 'giant crystal is a little funky....but given that the footage wasn't shot for this composition in the first place, what can you say?
In regards to the other choice- having Jor-el appear up until the last moment may lend more 'authenticity' to the scene by having more than one element there- but having Jorel fade as he returns--- I don't know...timing wise, it feels (to me) like he should have faded- before his son comes to....that way the focus is JUST on the 'ressurection'--- but- with these edit choices, it's all subjective.
Also- I always thought that perhaps there should have been a shot of the Fortress exploding from the repowering- from the outside just before during the 'making of the FOS' from STM to help give a punctuation to the scene after he screams 'fatha!!!'.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 29, 2011 15:25:25 GMT -5
The tricky thing is figuring out how Superman is SMILING right after the last scene as he flies off before the credits... If he smiles right after dropping off a Lois in tears on the balcony, then he's going to look like a bit of a jerk... |
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Conor
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Post by Conor on Nov 29, 2011 19:33:18 GMT -5
The home movies scene, I hope it's not square on the crystal display. Perhaps crystal shapes or soft edges. I can't remember what Selutron did now but it looks like a TV within it. Love 13. Still hate the SIII Reeve closeup. Wish there was a better one.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 29, 2011 19:37:26 GMT -5
The home movies scene, I hope it's not square on the crystal display. Perhaps crystal shapes or soft edges. I can't remember what Selutron did now but it looks like a TV within it. Love 13. Still hate the SIII Reeve closeup. Wish there was a better one. This is only a rough draft. None of these videos are the completed effects. Boosh wants to do the editing of the film first before he does any special effects. As for the close-up, I only chose that one because I'd rather not repeat shots. Which is why most of the suggestions I made were shots from S3. I'd also rather not use any shots from S4, as Reeve looks way too different. Even a close-up. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 30, 2011 9:16:54 GMT -5
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 30, 2011 13:42:11 GMT -5
Those other clips are good,inventive but too much I think.
13 will do.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 30, 2011 14:44:15 GMT -5
Those other clips are good,inventive but too much I think. 13 will do. I agree. |
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Post by Kamdan on Nov 30, 2011 15:03:08 GMT -5
I've been following your progress and I was wondering if you could attempt to add something in when Superman rises. Could you have him say, "Thank you, father" from the extended edition just before he takes off?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 30, 2011 15:18:56 GMT -5
In looking at these--- I have to agree that #13 is the best. While I can understand wanting to vary these--- having Reeve fly up in a DOWNWARDS direction feels odd as he heads towards the ceiling-- I assume the change is to try to vary the shot, but unnecessary imo, and more distracting. Also, the second breath in #13 (cut out of #15) helps establish a normal rhythm--- two breaths rather than one, which feels too short imo. The extra long shot of him turning around seems to serve no purpose. But--- man, what a divergence of opinions on one short bit sequence, eh? |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 30, 2011 18:53:03 GMT -5
what a divergence of opinions on one short bit sequence, eh? I'm faithful that we will all come to a mutual agreement because we all want the same thing. For me, the little edit ideas that some of us come up with (removing a line here or there), isn't the main course. What is will be the choices that make the 2 versions of the film so vastly different: 1. Theatrical recap, or STM space credits repeat? 2. Which jump should Lois take? 3. How does she find out Supes' identity? 4. Do they sleep together before or after he loses his powers? 5. Does Superman consult his mother or his father (or both)? 6. Do the villains live or die? 7. Does Lois keep his secret, or is she relieved of that burden? 8. If she is relieved of that responsibility, does Superman interfere with human history (again), or does he slip her a roofie in that kiss? 9. Does Superman get revenge? Or does he leave Rocky alone? 10. If Rocky gets what's coming to him, do we still see the flag return, or do we cut to Earth flyby? 11. More Williams music (meaning repeated music cues which may not have been edited so well), or more Thorne cues? 12. Deleted scenes/RIC scenes...yay or nay? I think what we may need to do, is that thing people do on message boards where we start with a number after each option, people weigh their vote, and the numbers rise and fall until the ones no one likes are omitted, and we get our best choices. Let this be a homework assignment for anyone following this thread. Go over these numbers, think of which ones you like, and reply with your choices. We'll keep going through the process of elimination until we have something that EVERYONE agrees on. Now granted, Boosh HAS said that regardless of what everyone likes, and regardless of how well people state their claim for whichever scene, this is still his cut. So his choices are his to make. FWIW, his edit of S2 is definitely my favorite by far because him and I have similar ideas towards what "works". As well as doing more than any other editor has done so far (Selutron doesn't count because he never released it). As for my choices, for those who aren't familiar with my cut: 1. Theatrical recap (with some alternate shots) 2. DP jump with re-arranged shots and alternate music 3. The identity reveal is the only one I am 50/50 on. I honestly don't know which one I prefer, as up until now I always relied on the Selutron version. 4. Sex AFTER loss of powers. 5. Jor-el trumps Lara (if for nothing more than continuity with the 1st film, mother-son sentiments be damned), but the crystal viewer should be there for the Lex scenes. 6. Villains live. We may not have anything to go with (how will the villains adjust to mortal life?) but Superman and Lois DO NOT MURDER!! 7. Lois will know his secret. She's a strong woman. 9. Rocky gets what's coming to him. 10. Flag return. When Superman tells the president "I won't let you down again" he is not speaking to the president, or the American people. He's speaking to ALL of humanity. 11. Thorne cues all the way. Hearing the repeated Williams cues in the Donner Cut is like a knife going through my ears. 12. There's a few lines of dialogue I'd like to hear, but they're not necessary. |
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 30, 2011 19:36:26 GMT -5
1. STM space credits repeat. Second part of STM,no need for recap.
2. DPJ- edit music and FX,and CK double.
3. Hand into the fire... (as much as I love the BB scene/writing. If this was filmed I would have it in the cut,continuity in screen test is too jarring)
4. They sleep together after he loses his powers.
5. Does Superman consult his mother or his father? Both: Jor-El's tree's bit, ''he looks just like the kid''...the bigger crystal...Mother's warning and de-powering,Father re-powering.
6. The villains live,RIC. deleted scene.
7. Lois keeps his secret. ''You know your really Super'' as corny as it is but better than kiss...
8. Is relieved of that responsibility? See above.
9. Does Superman get revenge? Or does he leave Rocky alone? Rocky is a prick and need taking down.
10. We still see the flag return and Earth flyby.
11. More Williams music (meaning repeated music cues which may not have been edited so well), or more Thorne cues? Not fussed.
12. Deleted scenes/RIC scenes,yea,full RIC scenes from the moment the action is taken outside of FOS until Superman leaves Lois on the balcony...DC: ''There he goes again,up up and away...''
That was a good exercise.. Now do some more regarding Houston,Prison,''Metro Battle''. etc etc... LC or DC FOS finale? (DC,for me)
Superman returns to Metropolis after opening credits but before Taxi drives into CK...
Use scene from STM when the ship flys through the clouds ((before it crashes of course)) and cut to the concord and Superman flying alongside it...then an exteria/establishing shot of Metropolis then the guy selling fruit followed by the taxi crash... (minus Lois Lane)
We're on the right track here...
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 30, 2011 23:40:32 GMT -5
just got a response from Boosh with his ideas for the outline (he STILL can't post here, will someone PLEASE email the right person and help him out?). Anyway, him and I agree on pretty much everything. He wants to know what everyone's thoughts are on the deleted scene outside the fortress when the villains bust through.
1. Theatrical recap, or STM space credits repeat?
Film will start with theatrical approach to Krypton with Thorne score as in REDUX. (try to replace red sun)
Trial recap as in REDUX (with Brando) – Then either continue recap with XK-101 into STM/DC hybrid credits. Or theatrical recap credits with clips changed, leading into turning back the world/ villains release.
2. Which jump should Lois take?
DP requires the use of blank bullets. Pink bear dialogue is too focused on the Niagara jump.
Option of both jumps and then use Pink bear, but then the audio from PB couldn't be used for the DP jump.
3. How does she find out Supes' identity?
Covered in point 2.
4. Do they sleep together before or after he loses his powers?
After. (As in REDUX) Walk to bed with Thorne cue after depowering.
5. Does Superman consult his mother or his father (or both)?
Father
6. Do the villains live or die?
Leaning towards live. Although the video quality isn't great, this is important and gives closure to Lex.
7. Does Lois keep his secret, or is she relieved of that burden?
No memory erasing kiss.
8. If she is relieved of that responsibility, does Superman interfere with human history (again), or does he slip her a roofie in that kiss?
Neither
9. Does Superman get revenge? Or does he leave Rocky alone?
I see the argument that it's not very Superman like, but I like the scene.
10. If Rocky gets what's coming to him, do we still see the flag return, or do we cut to Earth flyby?
Flag return is going to be there.
11. More Williams music (meaning repeated music cues which may not have been edited so well), or more Thorne cues?
Lester cues will be used wherever possible.
12. Deleted scenes/RIC scenes...yay or nay?
See point 6. Doubt any of Lex's fortress deleted scenes will be included. What do people think about the villains enter the fotress deleted scene. I included it in my first edit and left it out of REDUX. I do like it, and so does Donner according to the DC featurette.
Other stuff:
DC footage will be colour matched to the theatrical cut. So brown rocks on the moon and not blue, etc.
Attempt to disguise Hackmans bald cap. Only where it really sticks out. I don't want to focus more attention on it with obvious digital tinkering.
Fix XK-101 in any shot requiring it.
I'm glad he's gonna try to match Donner Cut footage with theatrical. Until now, we all did the opposite. I did in my cut, but only because the picture quality was better. Now that the blu-ray's have fixed that, I will be VERY glad to see the Donner FOS scenes in their PROPER WHITE color. I don't know what Thau was thinking when he decided to make the FOS blue.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 1, 2011 12:26:24 GMT -5
I think he went WAYYY overboard with changes after tinting the moon scenes blue (which is the ONE color change I actually ended up liking better- go figure).... thinking that the way to go was to make more changes to the original, rather than keeping it to match STM.... BLEAUGH!!! ("A bouncing, floating head for Jor-el! That's it!")  |
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Post by Jimbo on Dec 1, 2011 12:49:32 GMT -5
The blue tint isn't really on Thau. That's pretty much the industry trend these days. They redid the color timing from scratch, and so they did it with 2006 aesthetics in mind. Many old movies that get remastered from scratch get that blue tint. Such as Star Trek II, Aliens.
That creates a stark contrast with Lester's Superman II as it still looks like a movie from the 1970s. The remastering for Blu-ray shows off even more just how superior that version is.
If you are going to combine both versions, do yourself a favor and desaturate the Donner cut footage and remove the blue tint.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 1, 2011 12:55:09 GMT -5
After time, a few ideas I probably would have changed my mind on, but most are the same- and reasons why...
1. Theatrical recap, or STM space credits repeat?
Theatrical + adding Brando + clips more in chronological order (why it's out of order is anyone's guess)
Why?
The STM space credits repeat don't look the same + given how shortchanged we are on Donner footage, seeing a recap helps 'get in the spirit' of what we felt in the first before jumping into the second...
2. Which jump should Lois take?
DP jump for sure- but with Mank's idea of Lois looking up and seeing Supes for a split second each time she looks back at him in the DP and Supersebastian's idea of using rotoscopes on the deleted STM scene with the alligators where Supes smiles back at her, arms folded.
AND- the Niagara jump... with some lines altered & 'Lois, we went through this before' line added when Clark turns his head.
Reason why? Mank's script tried to keep everything fresh and novel with each scene. By pushing the situation in the FIRST scene following the recap, he got the whole situation out of the way..... the following scenes were supposed to have more emphasis on the Clark/Lois/Supes love triangle--- but not make Lois look like an unlikeable witch, like Lester did.
Why the Niagara jump? For transition sake--- the performances match far better (as they were supposed to) following the Lester Niagara version of the rescue.... rather than the awkward screen test. The screen test is going off a different dynamic that Mank/Donner would have established by two scenes that weren't shot by Donner that look similar, but were much different in the actual script. (Lois intentionally KISSES Clark in the hotel room, trying to boost his confidence in one of the scenes).
3. How does she find out Supes' identity?
If you can tolerate the rawness (and lack of continuity and cheap stage set) of the screen test, take the screen test. Even with rotoscoping, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Unfortunately, I'd choose the Pink Bear, with some lines deleted where possible.
4. Do they sleep together before or after he loses his powers?
Since Donner never shot the scenes properly- it seems to work (and flow) better by going with the Donner repowering- right to the Lester version of Clark walking over to Lois & they walk towards the super-bed. So, it's afterwards.
5. Does Superman consult his mother or his father (or both)?
Love Susannah York.... but it derails the story intended in the first place of the Father-Son. Buh-Bye, Lara....
6. Do the villains live or die?
Gotta have the 'arctic patrol' deleted scene. Just as a couple of cities are almost always referenced in the U.S.--- I have no problem with Lex mentioning 'Smallville Strongboy'- figuring that for extremes in that world, Metropolis is the biggest city everyone wants to go to, Smallville considered the smallest. (hence, Smallville) Doesn't mean that Lex figured out where Supes really came from, never took it that way.
7. Does Lois keep his secret, or is she relieved of that burden?
It probably is better that way- but, it's almost impossible not to think about the multiple endings after the balcony scene..... one way or another, she has to be made to forget, I would think.
8. If she is relieved of that responsibility, does Superman interfere with human history (again), or does he slip her a roofie in that kiss?
Divided on this--- if he does have to change human history, then I think he does need to see the devastation of the world in his absence (hinted at directly by Spengler in the commentary- that it wasn't just for Lois' memory) as was originally intended.
If it's a memory kiss, then the 'flashbacks' of moments that'll be lost that I think Verisimilitude added should be put in, with music over it. It gives that 'boost' needed if going with a fairy tale type of ending. Only Superman carries the burden of those moments lost.
9. Does Superman get revenge? Or does he leave Rocky alone?
Eh. Leave it in. It's still Donner, and the Baird editing is impeccable.
10. If Rocky gets what's coming to him, do we still see the flag return, or do we cut to Earth flyby?
Definitely flag return. Even if the choice is made to turn back time, that whole time reversal is whacked anyways, so one could always say that there are 'hiccups' that would still exist.
11. More Williams music (meaning repeated music cues which may not have been edited so well), or more Thorne cues?
Suprised to say THORNE!!! where possible. It's still based on Williams' music anyhow.... but at least the music is rearranged to be slightly different than STM.
12. Deleted scenes/RIC scenes...yay or nay?
Some of them- for sure, despite the horrible difference in picture quality, the voice of Margot speaking outside of the FOS just kills me as not sounding like her (to me)- and it's a necessity to have the RIC version semi-restored here. Hate it, but not a whole lot of choice.
Entering the Fortress is done in epic style- I like the idea that Jor-el anticipated this, and the idea of an 'invisible force field' helps sell the idea prior to about why there looks to be no real door to the chamber as well.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Dec 1, 2011 13:03:21 GMT -5
Boosh has started doing some theatrical-style credits tests. Looks A LOT better than any of the videos on youtube where people try to do the STM-style credits. It sounds to me like Boosh is gonna go with theatrical re-cap, and not repeat STM space titles-only. I argue that this style makes the credits less boring, was something that was becoming popular at the time (music videos were gaining momentum in the late 70's-early 80's), AND, as future comic book movie sequels have shown, is quite popular (Spider-Man 2, for example). vimeo.com/32955014vimeo.com/32955122 |
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Post by Jimbo on Dec 1, 2011 13:08:11 GMT -5
I don't think MAV noticed that Booshman joined the board.
Booshman, if you're reading this, your account is enabled.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 1, 2011 13:08:20 GMT -5
Interesting choice.
Valerie Perrine looks great- the Brando one is a little funky, the motion looks a bit astray (as well as timing).
Pity that it doesn't seem possible to REALLY duplicate the STM credits just as they looked for STM. The closest attempt by Thau's company still look 2006. At least the reconstructed Lester version of the credits 'feels' older, and remind one more of the time frame SII came out.
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