|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 1, 2014 9:39:02 GMT -5
It might have been RKS' or Verismilitude's cut that had an external shot of Superman flying away from the FOS (using the S3 flying away from the dump area) following Supes flying out of the FOS from Lois. Definitely was more interesting than just watching foilage for a few seconds before Superman lands to get flowers.  |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823 
|
Post by atp on Dec 1, 2014 14:27:39 GMT -5
Will you have the memory kiss at the Daily Planet the following morning? No. It's probably best..... I can't help but feel that a lot of the stuff in the international was already cut by Stuart Baird in the first place- (although Thau claimed he left those alone, but I dunno)--- if it wasn't, the Donner stuff still felt like it was cut WAY better in the theatrical than the Thau cut. With studios seeming to do extended cuts/etc. less and less now- maybe we're just lucky to have gotten anything while we did- I hoped we might have gotten more material with Man of Steel being a modest hit, but oh well... I assume the Selutron cut will NEVER come out (why doesn't he just release it on youtube at this point).... In any case- are you planning to replicate anything Selutron did? He did have some really good ideas & 'The Swarm' is available on dvd (though not blu ray yet- though "Airport" is)... No plans to do the major recap overhaul that Sel did. I've got my ow version the "home movies" scene, which I prefer over the style he went for. Feel free to post any suggestions that you might have for new shots. I've got copies of the three DVD's you made a few years ago. Will your version end with Lois lnowing the truth? |
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Dec 2, 2014 6:52:54 GMT -5
No. No plans to do the major recap overhaul that Sel did. I've got my ow version the "home movies" scene, which I prefer over the style he went for. Feel free to post any suggestions that you might have for new shots. I've got copies of the three DVD's you made a few years ago. Will your version end with Lois lnowing the truth? Yeah it will. The first cut I did had the last conversation be on the balcony. My second had it be the "get us a pizza" scene, but slightly edited, to imply Lois is just playing with Clark, and they are sharing a joke. I'll probably do the same or similar, for this edit. Do you have any ideas for how to end it without using the amnesia kiss? It might have been RKS' or Verismilitude's cut that had an external shot of Superman flying away from the FOS (using the S3 flying away from the dump area) following Supes flying out of the FOS from Lois. Definitely was more interesting than just watching foilage for a few seconds before Superman lands to get flowers. I did a shot leaving the fortress using the junkyard footage, I had that shot play after the repowering scene. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 2, 2014 7:07:20 GMT -5
Will your version end with Lois lnowing the truth? Yeah it will. The first cut I did had the last conversation be on the balcony. My second had it be the "get us a pizza" scene, but slightly edited, to imply Lois is just playing with Clark, and they are sharing a joke. I'll probably do the same or similar, for this edit. Do you have any ideas for how to end it without using the amnesia kiss? The way I've heard Reeve describe the bit with getting the rare flower and the memory kiss.... man, it SOUNDS so nice the way he describes it- but the execution is just so... flat & the conversation is so awkward (though I love the music cues) that maybe there's a fresh graceful way to include the memory kiss. Originally, I thought maybe using a deleted bit of Superman using a crystal into the crystal bank to erase it from afar- but the crystal bank blew up.... and Supes destroys the FOS! So, there's that.... Would be nice to figure out a new way to end it that isn't memory kiss, time travel--- ignoring it I guess is ok.... but it sure minimizes Lois' pain by getting over it the next day. Hmmmn.... |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Dec 2, 2014 13:11:43 GMT -5
I really love the memory kiss scene, even though the memory kiss itself is a stupid idea.
The music is perfect and acting and dialogue is better than the Donner cut breakups. The whole "I dont know what to say. Just say you love me" thing is a beautiful echo of the depowering scene.
I wonder if it is possible to keep the memory kiss and everything leading up to it, but to end the scene before she loses her memory.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 2, 2014 17:34:08 GMT -5
I really love the memory kiss scene, even though the memory kiss itself is a stupid idea. The music is perfect and acting and dialogue is better than the Donner cut breakups. The whole "I dont know what to say. Just say you love me" thing is a beautiful echo of the depowering scene. I wonder if it is possible to keep the memory kiss and everything leading up to it, but to end the scene before she loses her memory. I think having it in that workplace setting always made my skin crawl a bit. Part of it was Margot's performance under Lester (where you could kind of feel her a little pissed off being there without Donner around)- but visually it wasn't shot in a very visually pleasing way- unlike the balcony scenes. Donner was the sentimental romantic, Lester the cynic- and it's just a weird mix that sometimes work, sometimes didn't in SII.... |
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Dec 3, 2014 7:16:19 GMT -5
I really love the memory kiss scene, even though the memory kiss itself is a stupid idea. The music is perfect and acting and dialogue is better than the Donner cut breakups. The whole "I dont know what to say. Just say you love me" thing is a beautiful echo of the depowering scene. I wonder if it is possible to keep the memory kiss and everything leading up to it, but to end the scene before she loses her memory. It's just a shame that Lois has the oppostite attitude to fortress and balcony conversation. It means choosing one over the other, or together it would look like Lois pulls a complete 180 overnight. It can't see how it would work to leave out the amnesia kiss, as you are left without a resolution since there is no footage to follow it. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 3, 2014 23:53:30 GMT -5
I really love the memory kiss scene, even though the memory kiss itself is a stupid idea. The music is perfect and acting and dialogue is better than the Donner cut breakups. The whole "I dont know what to say. Just say you love me" thing is a beautiful echo of the depowering scene. I wonder if it is possible to keep the memory kiss and everything leading up to it, but to end the scene before she loses her memory. It's just a shame that Lois has the oppostite attitude to fortress and balcony conversation. It means choosing one over the other, or together it would look like Lois pulls a complete 180 overnight. It can't see how it would work to leave out the amnesia kiss, as you are left without a resolution since there is no footage to follow it. Agreed. They didn't really leave room for it to blend well together. However, as much as I dislike the memory kiss scene- the original script by the Newmans was MUCH worse.... Superman uses his heat vision to alter a cup of water for Lois to drink- she drinks it, and forgets. THAT kind of scene would not have aged well at all, and made the evil Superman in Superman III seem not so bad by comparison. Somehow, a kiss makes it seem less offensive. On another note: Has anyone seen the DC Robot Chicken special? Hilarious tribute to the memory kiss bit.... |
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Dec 31, 2014 0:07:34 GMT -5
Here's a shot I've been working on for the past few weeks. It's still not finished as I need to replace the picture of Luthor and the small headline with his name on it. Replacing the newspaper in this way is going to allow me to open the movie with an edited version of the Paris sequence., so the movie will start with some good Superman action.
I realise Perry's mouth moves a little before he hits the paper, since I changed his dialogue, I'll have to sort that out later too.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 31, 2014 15:20:05 GMT -5
Here's a shot I've been working on for the past few weeks. It's still not finished as I need to replace the picture of Luthor and the small headline with his name on it. Replacing the newspaper in this way is going to allow me to open the movie with an edited version of the Paris sequence., so the movie will start with some good Superman action. I realise Perry's mouth moves a little before he hits the paper, since I changed his dialogue, I'll have to sort that out later too. Good lord--- that is AMAZING. Seamless. Good show, sir! |
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Apr 6, 2020 13:30:10 GMT -5
Here's a newly finished clip.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Apr 6, 2020 13:41:46 GMT -5
Looks great. Obviously the new compositing is very good. Best choice was cutting those ridiculous Reeve reaction shots. I’ve wanted to see someone do that for years. It looks more serious and dramatic now. I don’t blame him since what is that supposed to look like but it just didn’t work. Your edit makes the repowering much better and shows those frames could be cut and still work.
|
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Apr 6, 2020 13:48:27 GMT -5
Thanks man, glad you like it.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Apr 6, 2020 15:22:48 GMT -5
It's incredible
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Apr 7, 2020 3:25:43 GMT -5
Technically, that is amazing, and much improves upon the 2006 version. Honestly, awesome job.
But...
After having years to digest it, I now prefer not seeing Superman get his powers back!
I actually prefer the theatrical version, where you only know Superman is back when the newspapers start blowing!
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Apr 7, 2020 3:33:59 GMT -5
I do also have to say that the music ylu used is perfect. Especially when Jor El dissolves into a crystal mask, and Superman reaches his hand out to him. Absolutely perfect.
|
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Apr 7, 2020 12:24:25 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, I have a new found appreciation for the Brandoless version too. Luckily when this project is eventually finished there will be the otpion to choose what version of the scene you want to see, this new version or the theatrical.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Apr 7, 2020 13:02:26 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, I have a new found appreciation for the Brandoless version too. Luckily when this project is eventually finished there will be the otpion to choose what version of the scene you want to see, this new version or the theatrical. I would love to see a repowering version that doesn't rely on Brando to be the one depowering. I prefer the version with his mother actually. And I also never liked the whole "kryptonian prophecy" thing either. There are also too many "look at me Kal El" lines! So my ideal dialogue would be: JOR-EL: Listen carefully my son, for we shall never speak again. You have made a dreadful mistake, Kal-El. You did this of your own free will. (Pause) Now you have returned to me for one last chance to redeem yourself. And this too, finally, I have anticipated my son. Look at me Kal El. Once before, when you were small, I died while giving you a chance for life. And even though it will exhaust the final energy left within me... CLARK: Father, no! JOR-El: (ignores his outburst) Farewell forever, Kal-El. Remember me, my son. I love the way you already cut out some of the lines about the circle being complete. And your reaction shots of Reeve are perfect. He looks so sad and crushed there, yet not overacting as he was in the 2006 Donner cut. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 7, 2020 13:46:04 GMT -5
Here's a newly finished clip. Hey Booshman!  This is awesome- it looks great of course! I was lucky to have seen a few of Booshman's previous versions.... there are little bits that I might have had a preference to keep in/ alter from previous versions, but just a HUGE amount of respect for the concept and execution. Rotoscoping is a pain in the behind and TEDIOUS too--- Just a shout out for all the hours that I know had to go into this- Also- the personal pain I think in going back and forth on the different options that are available (though with every option, add on 'x' amount of extra hours!) :0 on editing & having to make a choice. Anyhow- awesome awesome awesome! |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 7, 2020 13:57:33 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, I have a new found appreciation for the Brandoless version too. Luckily when this project is eventually finished there will be the otpion to choose what version of the scene you want to see, this new version or the theatrical. I would love to see a repowering version that doesn't rely on Brando to be the one depowering. I prefer the version with his mother actually. And I also never liked the whole "kryptonian prophecy" thing either. There are also too many "look at me Kal El" lines! So my ideal dialogue would be: JOR-EL: Listen carefully my son, for we shall never speak again. You have made a dreadful mistake, Kal-El. You did this of your own free will. (Pause) Now you have returned to me for one last chance to redeem yourself. And this too, finally, I have anticipated my son. Look at me Kal El. Once before, when you were small, I died while giving you a chance for life. And even though it will exhaust the final energy left within me... CLARK: Father, no! JOR-El: (ignores his outburst) Farewell forever, Kal-El. Remember me, my son. I love the way you already cut out some of the lines about the circle being complete. And your reaction shots of Reeve are perfect. He looks so sad and crushed there, yet not overacting as he was in the 2006 Donner cut. I did like the idea in the dialogue of the circle being complete- it helps with the feeling of STM/SII being one solid story- but I wonder (nobody would know) if Baird would have used a 'flashback shot' of STM with Jorel and Lara talking to baby Kal-el in the crystal - while the 'circle' was being mentioned or if Donner/Baird would have put a hazy effect so that it would suggest Clark could also see this image (since the images of the PZ criminals showed up before in the projections) - with an effect overlay.... or, if Baird would have just wanted to use the Brando 'face' as much as possible, given what they were paying him. In regards to the 'look at me Kal-el!' lines--- on paper, it read like Jor-el was getting angry and losing it. In the performance shots chosen, Brando seems to just be repeating himself- and worse, it doesn't quite feel like it matches the Reeve reaction shots. Before, doing audio editing for a company, some of the less-professional voice actors (who were being paid a lump sum) would want to just do a few lines of a speech, take a break, then continue with a different intonation or emphasis--- making the speech feel VERY inconsistent --- but they thought that it didn't matter and that I could fix it in editing even if it didn't match. My main issue with the conversation in the RDC particularly the repowering scenes is that the performances don't seem to match either the context (Reeve runs into the FOS, then immediately pacing wise goes into the mini-monologue about making a fatal mistake--- didn't feel natural, I feel like there had to be other takes)- or - between each other, in the case of Brando's line delivery and Reeve's reactions. In any case.... it's a pity that the different takes of both Reeve and Brando weren't offered up in the dvd set.... would be nice to have seen what might have been possible if the other takes were performed differently.... |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 7, 2020 18:52:59 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, I have a new found appreciation for the Brandoless version too. Luckily when this project is eventually finished there will be the otpion to choose what version of the scene you want to see, this new version or the theatrical. The Brando-free version with Lara I think LOOKS like Reeve and York are having an actual conversation with each other- (as opposed to portions of the depower/repower sequences in the RDC which to me sometimes don't feel that way)-- and it has the extra advantage of (1) having shot the Margot Kidder closeups and (2) matching the tone of what came before, as Lester was able to shoot that footage. The question mark that I think will always be floated around is: Were the right takes used to put it all together or were these takes really all Michael Thau had to work with? |
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Apr 7, 2020 23:07:58 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, I have a new found appreciation for the Brandoless version too. Luckily when this project is eventually finished there will be the otpion to choose what version of the scene you want to see, this new version or the theatrical. I would love to see a repowering version that doesn't rely on Brando to be the one depowering. I prefer the version with his mother actually. And I also never liked the whole "kryptonian prophecy" thing either. There are also too many "look at me Kal El" lines! So my ideal dialogue would be: JOR-EL: Listen carefully my son, for we shall never speak again. You have made a dreadful mistake, Kal-El. You did this of your own free will. (Pause) Now you have returned to me for one last chance to redeem yourself. And this too, finally, I have anticipated my son. Look at me Kal El. Once before, when you were small, I died while giving you a chance for life. And even though it will exhaust the final energy left within me... CLARK: Father, no! JOR-El: (ignores his outburst) Farewell forever, Kal-El. Remember me, my son. I love the way you already cut out some of the lines about the circle being complete. And your reaction shots of Reeve are perfect. He looks so sad and crushed there, yet not overacting as he was in the 2006 Donner cut. The tricky balance is finding the line between what's preferential and what;s possible with the available footage. Unfortunatley with the score mixed in with all the dialogue, it makes crafting conversations difficult. Here's an outline for the project, I don't think I posted it here before. It will work like a choose your own adventure.  Anyhow- awesome awesome awesome! Thanks for the feedback mate, glad you like it. What bits from the other revisions did you like? |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 8, 2020 3:11:41 GMT -5
In looking back at 'Rough 14' on the vimeo channel- There are a couple of bits that I really liked that you came up with that had been changed or deleted that I missed-- #1: The image of Jor-el's face smiling in approval and fading in the same frame as Supes' long shot getting up from the broken crystals. Supes doesn't notice him, but I missed that moment. #2: The 'turn' you had chosen initially I liked better than the long shot of Supes standing because it felt like Supes was readjusting for a second versus the more static shot I preferred. #3: Also Supes flying up and breaking of the crystal ceiling is such a nice punctuation mark to the scene that I really missed it - the flying and causing the ripples in the water is cool, but imo it's just not as strong as that 'ceiling break' moment you came up with. While it could be argued that Supes would have an opening for him to fly out of--- (1) It accentuates just how critical the situation was that he flew out the closest spot even if it broke the FOS- rather than the side (the first STM flying shot) or the other side exit (suggested by Lester when he goes to get the flower & leaves Lois in SII). (2) it's just FIERCE and I think it adds the 'pop' to the scene. You know I know just how painstaking the work is- so I love it, but since you asked, I did love your concepts for the previous version and miss a few of the microbits. But- thanks for sharing this--- with all that's going on in the world, it was nice to have a small ray of light for the day. |
|
|
|
Post by booshman on Apr 8, 2020 13:01:16 GMT -5
I took out the smile as I decided that once Jor-El said Remember me and turned to the crystal mask, he was gone.
The turn from Superman 4 ended up being too short and incomplete. Had he turned around fully and stopped for a moment I might have gotten it to work but as it is I went with the shot from Superman 2.
I've gone and done the effect breaking through the roof. I wasn't going to bother as I thought I couldnt rotoscope the debris but I got it to work. I've tidied up some of the other effects and asome sound effects to the flying, so when I post an updated clip I'll include it.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 8, 2020 13:46:08 GMT -5
I took out the smile as I decided that once Jor-El said Remember me and turned to the crystal mask, he was gone. The turn from Superman 4 ended up being too short and incomplete. Had he turned around fully and stopped for a moment I might have gotten it to work but as it is I went with the shot from Superman 2. I've gone and done the effect breaking through the roof. I wasn't going to bother as I thought I couldnt rotoscope the debris but I got it to work. I've tidied up some of the other effects and asome sound effects to the flying, so when I post an updated clip I'll include it. Once again- very cool! That breaking through the roof moment is gold- glad you got it to work! Looking forward to it & hope you and yours are safe during this time, Booshman! |
|
