Booshman is re-doing his S2 fan cut in HD

[crazy_asian_man]

After Superman saves the kid, Lois is waving after him and isn't acknowledged by Superman at all. The scene would end at "well heck and goodbye". Then when we get back to the hotel, Lois is sulking about this encounter and not the jump into the river.

It does seem less cheap-looking by not having that water jump.....(even though from the making of, it's anything but cheap- just shot to look that way)- and Donner would have save the money for another section (suprised that they didn't as well here) of the film.

Storywise, cutting at her being sad as he ignores her while flying away- then to the hotel makes sense.....though it's arguable why Superman would feel guilty enough to then trip into the fire, if there's not the buildup of having put her through all the humiliation of almost drowning publicly for so long....but it's far better than the screen test in its current form and a better transition.

Still, I repsect how much of a pain in the neck it is to make a perfect recut/rewrite of this thing, given what Lester did. Gah!

[crazy_asian_man]

As for the opening, I'd prefer if the fade in has us immediately go to the red sun approach, but I suppose that red/blue matter "spilling" as the first thing we see has been really etched into our minds eh? lol. I do like how it "spills" right in tune with the music. Right with the horn as it holds that note. Just another example of why I didn't like Thau re-using Williams cues, when I felt that *for the most part* Thorne did fine with what he had to work with.

The red-blue stuff- agreed--- is etched into our brains, and added a moment of nice ambiguity for a bit before the movie opens- but putting in the 'real' red sun helps complete that journey to Krypton better.

There are SO many ways to approach the opening of the second one- that - even though I wasn't crazy about the cheapness and the deleting of Brando - Lester & his editor did a solid job (for the most part) in their choices for the beginning- UNTIL the last credit "Directed by Lester" comes up and the dropdown in quality starts with the slow/tedious Paris stuff.

[booshman]

Here's a test to see if I could replace Susannah York's credit with one for Brando. The font needs to be changed and the path of the text isn't spot on, also the clips from STM aren't finalised. I wasn't sure if it could be done well since Susannah Yorks credit appears before Valerie Perrine's has left the screen, but I'm happy with the result.

vimeo.com/33709588

[crazy_asian_man]

Here's a test to see if I could replace Susannah York's credit with one for Brando. The font needs to be changed and the path of the text isn't spot on, also the clips from STM aren't finalised. I wasn't sure if it could be done well since Susannah Yorks credit appears before Valerie Perrine's has left the screen, but I'm happy with the result.

vimeo.com/33709588

Looks cool, but wondering about what kind of order system you're using with the credits...(Or how much difference the order is for the credits anyways)

[TylerDurden389]

I'm sure we'll get the layout soon enough . Interesting choice of clips. I like how you timed it with the music.

[Jimbo]

The Brando credit looked pretty good. The Fortress clip with the crystal and Jor-El seemed to drag though.

Just one suggestion regarding the credits - it's something I did.

Insert "A Richard Donner Film" from the end of STM just before "Directed by Richard Lester". It works because it's the exact same font as the S2 credits. It also works because it's true.....it's a Richard Donner film directed by Richard Lester. ;D

I did it by trimming the shot of Superman flying, fading in the Donner credit, then having it fade into the optical flash, followed by the Lester credit.

[atp]

Are there going to be any rough clips of the Kremlin and Tokyo and Washington Monument battles? Also the Eiffel Tower being melted?

[TylerDurden389]

Dec 15, 2011 12:05:25 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

The Fortress clip with the crystal and Jor-El seemed to drag though.

Agreed. The music builds up pretty epic there, and all it's showing is Brando. Now, I understand that he's important, but since the music is "saying" Superman (as Donner says), why show Jor-el? In my cut, I used the "S" reveal from the helicopter rescue in my cut's opening credits. The fact that he's running and trying to find a safe spot to change draws out the tension with the music as well.

[booshman]

Dec 15, 2011 12:05:25 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

The Brando credit looked pretty good. The Fortress clip with the crystal and Jor-El seemed to drag though.

Just one suggestion regarding the credits - it's something I did.

Insert "A Richard Donner Film" from the end of STM just before "Directed by Richard Lester". It works because it's the exact same font as the S2 credits. It also works because it's true.....it's a Richard Donner film directed by Richard Lester. ;D

I did it by trimming the shot of Superman flying, fading in the Donner credit, then having it fade into the optical flash, followed by the Lester credit.

That's a really good idea. I'll have to re-do a couple of the credits though. Pierre spengler fades into the shot of Supes flying, which isn't going to be used, and Richard Lester fades in to the street level shot of the DP. I'm thinking I could just end on the Donner credit that you suggested and leave any directors credit for the end credits.

The clips used are just placeholder, like the Brando credit itself, it was an exercise in seeing if I could get rid of S' Yorks credit convincingly, but all comments will be taken into consideration.

I'm not going to be using the street shirt rip here as the clips will be shown in chronological order. The first flyby past the camera in the fortress could work though.

[booshman]

Here's the moon scene, edited down slightly to make the villains more menacing. Not sure if I'm going to use any of this other than taking out Boris' dodgy bounce to Zod's feet, but it's something I wanted to try out.

vimeo.com/33774902

[TylerDurden389]

Not crazy about Ursa's kick huh? I'll admit the effect is VERY noticeable (and very dated), but I've never had a problem with this shot. Of all the revisions I've done, I've never thought of removing it. Same goes for Zod's kick and air tube pull. i think it's important to show these things because the villains are trying out their new powers. Hearing Ursa and Zod talk about what just happened WITHOUT seeing all of it makes it feel like something's missing IMO. I do agree that the astronaut "bounce" won't be missed. One of the few things that Thau did that I DO like lol.

[Kamdan]

I missed the Ursa kick and the edit with Zod implied something else...

[crazy_asian_man]

Here's the moon scene, edited down slightly to make the villains more menacing. Not sure if I'm going to use any of this other than taking out Boris' dodgy bounce to Zod's feet, but it's something I wanted to try out.

I can understand the reasons why you'd want to have the deaths implied rather than shown- but I agree with Tyler's point- that since they talk about testing their powers and being amazed, the few seconds with Ursa's kick helps (plus I love the shot of the Astronaut's pov as he flies away from Ursa- really haunting) & the movement of the Astronaut seems a bit awkward because in the cut with only one landing, the Astronauts does a SLOW turn--- so, it felt (to me) like there really was a legit reason for Baird to have that slow second bounce- if only to justify that the next shot doesn't really show a feeling of the astronaut 'hitting' the ground/slowing up to turn to Zod.... and the cut of Zod reaching for the astronaut and the astronaut's eyes popping open I agree kind of suggests something a little kinkier than intended (plus we miss that great moment of Zod's face when he pulls the oxygen line to the astronaut)...

Anyhow, just my thought on it-
As an alternative, I thought it might have been interesting to see what the moon sequence would have been like, if NOBODY spoke to each other (only Nate would be speaking to the Houston station)- not Ursa nor the astronauts- but instead had a heavy breathing/heartbeat racing/gasp, like a sequence from the original Alien movie.

(Though, yeah, this would mean losing the whole bit of the villains talking to one another on the moon as well afterwards- so, it'd be a fun experiment to see how much it'd raise the danger level, but probably something I doubt would have enough benefits in the long run to be in anyone's 'official' cut....eh, just thinking editing ideas out loud...)

[Jimbo]

I can't understand changing scenes that were fine (dare I say great) to begin with. I mean, scenes like the Metropolis battle (inconsistent tone, slapstick), the Fortress scenes (deleted Luthor scenes, cellophane S vs Donner ending), using Jor-El vs. using Lara are problematic, and need some work. But stuff like the moon fight is unchanged across the theatrical cut, Donner cut and RIC. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[crazy_asian_man]

I can't understand changing scenes that were fine (dare I say great) to begin with. I mean, scenes like the Metropolis battle (inconsistent tone, slapstick), the Fortress scenes (deleted Luthor scenes, cellophane S vs Donner ending), using Jor-El vs. using Lara are problematic, and need some work. But stuff like the moon fight is unchanged across the theatrical cut, Donner cut and RIC. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Except for the irritating change in tone for the Houston station by Lester (the Mank script called for a full house of folks at Houston and the situation was a mystery by the end of it, not joking about blowdryers)- I loved the moon sequence by Donner.... I just thought it might be a fun side experiment editingwise if the bits of the villains (and astronauts) talking might be removed in place of sound editing choices that might be a little more realistic & NOT having anyone talk in space.

As far as the other bits- the Ursa kick and the extra bounce, I've heard a few folks here and there on the forum mention not being crazy about it, and sticking out to them.

As with anything else...
All preference.

[Knight]

I agree with the logic,if it ain't broke don't fix it other wise it comes across as a totally different film. Don't deter from the source material(s) too much.


The moon scenes are the most menacing parts for SII,having them in a film that later is layered in slapstick just doesn't add up. Yes,am talking to you Lester!!!

[TylerDurden389]

Agreed with you guys. Looking back on it now, I don't see why Thau had to give the moon a blue hue, remove the bounce, or speed up the astronaut flying away after Zod kicks him. (or remove the sound effect for that matter). As for Houston, unfortunately the only thing to "fix" this scene would be use to use footage from a different film (as CAM and I have tinkered around with). Now, while I like that we are able to give the scene the TONE it deserves, I've reached a point with fan cuts that I feel that using scenes from other films unfortunately distracts too much from the narrative. People who aren't into this stuff like we are would end up watching the film more-so for the changes made, and not on its own merit. Which is of course what we're trying to do here.

And of course the legal reasons involved lol.

[crazy_asian_man]

The moon scenes are the most menacing parts for SII,having them in a film that later is layered in slapstick just doesn't add up. Yes,am talking to you Lester!!!

Yeah... that's always killed me. The moon attack should have been a foreshadowing of tonally what we would have gotten with the Metro battle (and was, with the script)- menacing and 'Independence Day'-type destruction around Metropolis.

A pity there's nobody in the right position at WB that could do a documentary that would be able to 'reconstruct' the Metro battle with the official storyboards/script that Donner most likely had done up for that part.... presuming that this stuff is locked up and stored after all these years & not all over the globe. (I'm still mourning the idea that Donner tossed his copy of the Superman II script with his written notes in a dumpster somewhere back in the day!) *sigh*

[booshman]

Here's the Brando credit re-done with the correct font and some new clips for the recap. Nothing is finalised but I think it's getting there.

The vid should be online in about a half hour.

vimeo.com/33865459

[matt]

Great Job!

[TylerDurden389]

Color me impressed!! If I didn't know that you had done that, I'd have figured it was the real thing!! Great job Boosh! And I like the alternate flying shot instead of holding on Brando for too long.

[Jimbo]

Wow, that was dead-on.

What font is that?

[crazy_asian_man]

Excellent stuff Booshman!
I still wonder though: is there a particular reason why you chose to have Brando's credit at this spot (as opposed to another actor)?

[booshman]

Cheers fellas.

Jimbo: The font is taken from the film itself. I took some screen grabs and got the letters I needed, then put them together in photoshop.

CAM: I put Brando in this position because it's alot easier for him to be a straight swap with Susannah york. This way I only have to re-do one credit.

[Rod]

very good!