Booshman is re-doing his S2 fan cut in HD

[matt]

Great revisions I like them!

[atp]

I think the credits should say exactly what scenes were directed by Donner and which by Lester.

[TylerDurden389]

Jan 1, 2012 16:00:50 GMT -5 atp said:

I think the credits should say exactly what scenes were directed by Donner and which by Lester.

What if certain scenes are edited in a way that have elements of both director's contributions at the same time? By that I mean, if it's a Donner directed scene that's dubbed over with Lester's audio?

[Kamdan]

So, after the credits, does it go into Selutron's Post Time Travel or something similar to that?

[crazy_asian_man]

Wasn't able to view the whole 9 minute clip (freezes at three seconds on my computer) but love the new bits:

#1: AMAZING what you did with the "Directed by Richard Donner and Richard Lester" bit. It's perhaps the most accurate title for any hybrid cut- (although I'll always feel Donner should get the lions' share) Aftereffects software?

#2: the 'starting credits' have an interesting choice.... I agree with Tyler that you make a good case for why the shot of Lara is there by herself with Jorel looking like he's busy- but the loss on the flip side (there'll always be a flip side to choices) is the loss of a moment of the Lara/Jorel connection with closeups in STM. (something that would have been nice to have, but understandable you can't have everything)

Bummer about no Brando opening credit though I understand the reasons why..

#3: Approach to Krypton- I think that figuring out the best opening for something that's almost an exact repeat of STM is always tricky.
It's almost a no-win scenario: In looking at the choices that existed:

(a) The Lester version was nice in that it had SOMETHING new with the villains. Not so nice in that they cheapened the trial right afterwards (and the idea that these were their regular clothes was a little odd.....but then again, did EVERYONE wear white clothes on Krypton? Seems like it--- and seems a bit odd that Kal-el's mom would choose to buck the trend and dress her son in red, blue, and yellow...but- anyhow...)--- also, the funky 'PZ spin/Zod yell as we dissolve into credits'--- turned out to be more interesting than NOT having it.

(b)The Donner version was nice in some of the alternate takes- although, it would have been nice that if they went in that direction, why not have MORE alternative takes in the trial so that it could REALLY feel fresh in that sequence? But the end result with the Villains sitting by and watching the destruction of Krypton is so sloppily-done, that it's little suprise that the Lester edited version comes off better.

The best of both would seem to retain some of the design elements of the beginning/ending of the prologue that the Lester edit had --- but with the alternative closeups that it looks like you put in, so that's cool.

Would be nice if there's a way to integrate the 'new' villains stuff with Zod & the guard (flat as it is, at least it's 'new' footage)--- RKS I think came up with a clever way of putting it in the 'Jorel/Luthor' talk of how the villains caused havoc on Krypton section.

But, anyhow, loving the work so far--- kudos & yeah....aside- I do plan on doing more searching for that footage you asked to view in the pm!

[TylerDurden389]

Don't worry CAM, Boosh has previously used the the shot of Non snapping the krypton guard's neck in his version of the viewing crystal scene with Lex, as well as Zod breaking the red crystal. So I'd imagine he's gonna do that again in this new version. IMO, Boosh's way is better than Selutrons since all Sel did was re-use the planet's destruction scenes as a way to say Zod had caused that. Which of course, isn't true.

[atp]

I never liked the idea of showing a recap of the trial in either the Lester version or the Donner version. It's unnecessary, and it makes the opening of S2 too similar to STM.

What about showing flashes of the trial and the phantom zone as part of the credits sequence, along with all the other flashbacks from STM?

[crazy_asian_man]

I never liked the idea of showing a recap of the trial in either the Lester version or the Donner version. It's unnecessary, and it makes the opening of S2 too similar to STM.

One magazine critic at the time of STM thought that the trial in STM seemed pointless, as the cliffhanger ending never happened.

I'd tend to agree- though after putting on the time reversal, it might only add to the confusion to ALSO put the missile breaking the phantom zone open after having that ending.

I guess in an ideal world, you'd have had the original cliffhanger ending (no time reversal) with the trial for STM--- and then for SII- either a new comic book opening recapping some of the items (plus the trial and Supes throwing the missile into space that frees them)--- or, as you suggested, flash cuts during the credit sequence.

Having (mostly) the entire trial for both STM and SII does feel like an odd disruption of pacing. At least with the Lester edit, there's something a little more new added to the mix....

[Rod]

yeah, Lester tried something new for the opening scene...but not enough, unfortunately. (that scene looks like sh#t, on the other hand the edit in the transition of the phantom zone to the green cristal is extra cool)

i guess there is no way to put it in the flashback.

since there wasnt any mention of the phantom zone at the end of STM, the trial scene has no other purpose that to catch your attention imediately to the screen. very effective.

[Knight]

Yea,the PZ/green crystal transition with the music is very cool indeed. Something I really like is the sound effect of the PZ coming through space and coming down on the three. Zod's threats sound really menacing too.

Said this before; the trail at the start of STM seems redundant now,considering that it was used as a plant for the pay-off at the end of the film when the villains are set free...

Still an amazing part though. Excellent!

[TylerDurden389]

You guys are right. The scene serves no purpose in STM now. If anything, it would've worked better if after STM's opening credits, when we reach Krypton, as we approach the Dome, instead of Jor-el's line "This is no fantasy..." it could've been "You cannot ignore these facts. It's suicide!!' then cut to the scene as is. There'd be no mention of Zod or anything. We'd literally just go straight to Jor-el's warning and be off the planet in less than 10 minutes. Sure would've helped the theatrical version's runtime huh? Sure we'd lose some Brando in the film, however....

......THEN, in the sequel, we have the same space approach, and have the ORIGINAL STM trial scene, as is, with no cutting or editing. It shows us something else, something we hadn't seen in the first film. Seeing these villains for the first time makes more sense in the context of the film as a sequel, AND is a nice segue' for the theatrical opening credits.

The only fan edit that every explored this idea somewhat was the "Son of Jor-el" fan edit that combines parts 1 and 2 into one film.

[Kamdan]

I think that's how it was written in the original Puzo, Newmans and Benton script, where we saw the details of the trial in the second film when Lex and company are in the Fortress, while the first film opened with Jor-El addressing the council.

I have to admit myself, in the context of viewing only the first film that the trial scene is out of place, but there was still the “Next Year Superman II” at the end, so they wanted to keep the seeds planted for the follow-up.

[TylerDurden389]

"Next Year: Superman 2" was obviously all that was left after (for whatever reason), the teaser for 2 was scrapped. It was probably because they felt they hadn't shot enough footage for 2 that would work in the context of a trailer that would get us excited.

Or wait, weren't we supposed to see the missile blow up and free the villains? If that's the case, then yeah, that was never shot. FWIW, I like that STM ends on such a high note. Funny to think that even back then, comic book movies were written with sequels in mind, eh?

[Knight]

Interesting. Start STM,credits and Jor-El addressing the council.

Works so much better now that I think about it...I'll take the world turning back,happy ending etc for STM without the trail.

Then in SII have the full trail and re-cap,where it's needed as the plant.

Lester can have is Paris Bomb Plot to release the villains for the pay off!

[matt]

You could have the trail recap then when phantom zone goes into space go to credits. Edit the credit into one sequence like STM with no recap of first movie.

[Kamdan]

Jan 1, 2012 19:55:03 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

"Next Year: Superman 2" was obviously all that was left after (for whatever reason), the teaser for 2 was scrapped. It was probably because they felt they hadn't shot enough footage for 2 that would work in the context of a trailer that would get us excited.

Or wait, weren't we supposed to see the missile blow up and free the villains? If that's the case, then yeah, that was never shot. FWIW, I like that STM ends on such a high note. Funny to think that even back then, comic book movies were written with sequels in mind, eh?

They shot the scenes of the villians escaping with the actors, as it appeared in the Donner Cut. When the schedule was getting tighter, they decided not to have a cliffhanger, which resulted to them focusing entirely on the first film and moving the turning the world backwards ending. They weren't sure if Superman II would get made, so they put it as the very last credit. After the massive grosses for the first film were so high, they had no hesitation it proclaiming that Superman III was coming soon and made it the first credit at the end of Superman II.

[crazy_asian_man]

Interesting. Start STM,credits and Jor-El addressing the council.

Works so much better now that I think about it...I'll take the world turning back,happy ending etc for STM without the trail.

Then in SII have the full trail and re-cap,where it's needed as the plant.

Lester can have is Paris Bomb Plot to release the villains for the pay off!

It's a smoother fit, for sure.... though the cool thing about having the trial in STM is that to see it onscreen for the first time, it's not expected - and is high drama, no small part due to Brando AND Stamp- and gives the slightest sense of 'what is life like on Krypton' when it's not on the verge of exploding.

(In fact, I thought the tone was so good, that I would not have minded MORE Terence Stamp as Zod before he got caught/ put on trial in STM)

[atp]

I still like the idea of the trial as the opening in STM.

It's one of the most powerful scenes in the movie.

It also lets people know immediately that this is a serious film and not some retarded light superhero crap. Having Brando and Stamp, both highly regarded actors, at the beginning gives the movie a feeling of weight.

[crazy_asian_man]

I still like the idea of the trial as the opening in STM.

It's one of the most powerful scenes in the movie.

It also lets people know immediately that this is a serious film and not some retarded light superhero crap. Having Brando and Stamp, both highly regarded actors, at the beginning gives the movie a feeling of weight.

True, very true...

I remember feeling the audience kind of stand up alert with the trial as it happened- (no texting, no cellphone chatting---didn't exist them-- but then again, at this time, it was also a two hour wait before seeing the film--- which was nice in that it really made it an event anyhow & with no cellphones, people generally bonded in line over the anticipation of the movie they were about to see together- kinda cool...but that's another story.)

Makes me wonder how audiences would have reacted if, after we saw Supes fly up in space after smiling at the audience--- (or up past the prison after Luthor is dropped off) and then panned up to see the rocket break the Phantom Zone open- and go back to see Zod and company and remind them of the tone at the very beginning.

Personally, would have preferred that for sure. (It would have definitely prevented Lester from using the rather slow Paris opening)

Also, it's a pity that there wasn't the teaser for part II at the end just like the Salkinds had for "The Three Musketeers"--- it's in the Mank script as well for STM.

Even if Lester ended up getting the job from Donner, it's interesting to speculate how SII would have opened differently without the Paris opening--- The cab hit probably would have remained & the orange juice bit.... but would/could it just have opened with Superman throwing the rocket into space and the missile breaking free the villains-- and straight to credits? (Perhaps like LOTR, where they didn't take much screentime with ANY real recap- assuming everyone going to SII already saw STM?)

Has someone already done a fancut where STM ends with the villains free? If so, has anyone seen it?

[Rod]

the release of the villains would be nice after credits or at the middle of them imo even with the turning back time being maintained and maybe the warning of jor-el reinforced at the scene.

[crazy_asian_man]

the release of the villains would be nice after credits or at the middle of them imo even with the turning back time being maintained and maybe the warning of jor-el reinforced at the scene.

It's a great idea... maybe the voice, "It is forbidden to change human history" echoing in the background as the rocket goes to break the zone open. (Maybe suggesting something kharmically?)

[booshman]

Here's the credits with some further revisions. The vid is currently uploading and should be available soon. I'm off to bed, enjoy.

vimeo.com/34509776

[Kamdan]

Has someone already done a fancut where STM ends with the villains free? If so, has anyone seen it?

I've seen attempts at recreating it and I believe that's how Gandy's animated Superman: The Movie ended.

[matt]

Great work Booshman!

[crazy_asian_man]

Here's the credits with some further revisions. The vid is currently uploading and should be available soon. I'm off to bed, enjoy.

vimeo.com/34509776

Brando first! YES!!!
Love the revisions and choices for most of the shots. I might have substituted the 'trial by bullets and fire' moments for the first confrontation with Lex & Supes & Otis- with so much motion going on before and after in the shots, it feels a bit stiff with them just standing there-- but that's more preference than anything else.

Awesome stuff!!!