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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 2:22:25 GMT -5
Apologies if a similar thread has come up before. (Feel free to delete this if so, mods) Ok, it's pretty clear that we all (for the most part) consider STM to be the gold standard of all the Superman films. But.... In our umpteen times of viewing the film, are there any nitpicks that we forgive but could point out? I have mine, curious if others have theirs. #10: When Krypton explodes, and we see a montage around the planet, did EVERYONE always wear the same two bits of silver clothing? If so, then wouldn't Lara prepping to dress her son in red and blues (and maybe a cape - it is vague) seem a little...odd? #9: Is anyone else bugged by a star journalist asking a visitor from another planet to look at her underwear during an interview? Again, (much like a lot) because so much of the film works so great, the little things are forgiven...but... #8: The sound quality of Terence Stamp when, during the trial, he screams at Jorel that he WILL pay one day.... him... and "YOUR ARSE/HEIRS!!!" It took a few viewings at the theatre when this came out to straighten this out. Maybe it was a bad sound system. #7: The biggest closeup ever in film history of a box of Cheerios, during the Smallville segment. It seems to dwarf the image of Zod smacking into the giant Coke sign, if memory serves right. #6: Speaking of product placement.... why the heck is Marlboro in a Superman film? (Yeah, I know it's in SII, but can't go without mentioning that... At least they didn't make Clark Kent light up, but I have a suspicion that Margot Kidder got crates of Marlboros as part of her compensation.) #5: Did the crystal that Jorel sent with his son have to look so much like a piece of Kryptonite? NO other color was available aside from green? hm.... #4: Lois's gown doesn't look warm enough to wear for the top of a penthouse apartment, let alone for flying up next to seagulls. #3: Originally, Margot Kidder was supposed to SING 'Can you read my mind', until it was discovered that she had no singing voice--- then she was told to just recite this 'poem'. I'm not sure what would have been worse. #2: Why does the piece of Kryptonite look so much like a toy? #1: If he's there to turn back time, why didn't he go back and save Pa Kent and Krypton, then? Again..... stuff that doesn't REALLY bug me....(if it did, I probably wouldn't have watched the film ten billion times). but, if in a nitpicky mood, that's what comes to mind..... anyone else got any?  |
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Post by booshman on Mar 1, 2012 4:28:33 GMT -5
The flip shot when Supes saves Air Force One. It's brief but the chest logo being backward bugs me.
The incredibly loud wheat rustling during the long shot when leaving Smallville, really drowns out the score.
The added fortress scene in the extended version. 28 hours in a day, are you shitting me? Don't like the scene very much at all.
The line "they received the fate that they deserved, isolation in the Phantom Zone, an eternal living death". Doesn't sound like the sort of talk you would expect from an enlightened people.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 1, 2012 7:39:56 GMT -5
Lose "Can You Read My Mind" and "turning back time" and I will forgive EVERYTHING else. Those are the only two things which prevent STM from being perfect ala Raiders or ESB./
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Melv
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Post by Melv on Mar 1, 2012 8:55:07 GMT -5
Lana Lang is really not attractive (horrifically superficial and shallow argument, I'll admit) and Jeff East doesn't look enough like Reeve. I'm very used to it now but it doesn't make much sense. They should have used Reeve early on in the shoot when he was skinnier.
Jor-El knows about Einstein (and the Fortress contains knowledge of more of Earth's writings and history in SII) but reveals later that he has been dead many thousands of Earth years. How did he look into the future?
Wouldn't Clark have heard the commotion outside the building before he notices Lois' predicament?
The Daily Planet doesn't have the globe on top but does in the comic-strip opening. It just bothers me slightly.
Why does Superman drop Lois when they're flying? I love the shot when he catches her so it's a nice moment but surely he must have done it on purpose and that's just a bit mean.
The inconsistencies between the interview and the following scene with Lex discussing it bother me. You have to assume there was a second interview or a lot was not shown for Lex to have the facts he does. Also, who took the photo on the cover?
Not a fan of the missile scene because it confused me as a kid. It seems, as Otis makes a mistake the first time, that Miss Tessmacher corrects that mistake. However she is actually just tampering with a second missile. Also, it's generally a bit of a silly sequence as is most of the Lex and Otis stuff.
Legoland.
Time-travel.
'This country is safe again, Superman! Thanks to you!' - Just too cheesy a line. I've never liked it.
I actually have quite a few when I get really nitpicky but these just came to mind.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2012 9:19:22 GMT -5
Kidder singing Can You Read My mind would have been much worse. I'm on the fence about the reading as is but turning that into a musical number would have been beyond hokey. Turning back time is one of the biggest problems. Great emotional payoff but it makes no sense whatsoever and renders any similar situation he faces in the future toothless. The SII Donner cut proved that. He should have turned back time before he knocked up Lois in Superman Returns. Instead of finger beam power and wall building vision power we'd have Superman's retroactive abortion power. The fact that Superman drops Luthor off at a PRISON instead of a police station without any due process bugs me a bit. Its a grander ending and looks cool and funny but its kind of odd. Unless Lex had escaped the prison once before. Either way I'm sure he was tried after the end of STM but its still odd. I prefer Supergirls version of the Phantom Zone that combines the flying album cover and the heckish otherworldly dimension. Its a bit more accurate to the source. I think Supergirl could have used a little more of that warping effect that we see in STM and SII Donner Cut though. The prisoners look more like "phantoms" in those. Seems like STAS combined the look of the Silver Age Phantom Zone and the Supergirl Phantom Zone. In STM they apparently make Lucy Lane OLDER and give her a bunch of kids  Another thing Supergirl got more right. In the extended STM Lois's parents must have been old as f*** when they had her. It was nice to see Alyn and Noel though and it kicked off that tradition of a past Lois playing the new Lois's mom (L&C and Smallville did it too). |
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 1, 2012 10:49:58 GMT -5
How come in STM, the Kryptonite made Superman weaker to the extent that he couldn't even swim? Shouldn't it have made him more powerful, so that he could lift a continent?
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 1, 2012 11:03:08 GMT -5
How come in STM the mugger was unable to see CK catch the bullet when in SR it was clearly implied a human is capable of seeing a bullet fall the ground after beign fired from a gun?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 11:11:00 GMT -5
Nitpick #11 of classic STM: ATM and Ye5man's inability to talk about any other subject on the planet without turning it into a remark about their raging supressed hidden love for SR. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 11:43:40 GMT -5
Yeah....I took it as implying that Lex was hiding out from a prison sentence from the get-go. (Thus, the underground hideout)
It IS grander--- and I have to admit that seeing the 'live' stunt done in that long shot made me just impressed as heck at how risky that stunt looked. (Plus Reeve's flyaway at the end of it from the ground to the top of the prison walls)
It is more interesting..... though I was kind of hoping for something a little more mind-blowing in the filmmakers' interpretation of the phantom zone. Wonder if we'll get something more visually fantastic with MOS for the zone...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 11:46:04 GMT -5
Yeah.... but I think it's good that the guy that they cast for the scientist that said that seemed to look like he was pissed off the whole time. Maybe he was the only constantly pissed off great scientist of Krypton. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 11:49:29 GMT -5
I thought there was a lot of corn on the first viewing, but was so thrilled at the FIRST big budget superhero film (Ever, I believe), that almost everything was forgiven in my eyes.
Still.....I'm glad that they didn't have a giant flag waving behind the prison warden as he says this. Would be a tad TOO much...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 11:55:37 GMT -5
Yeah.... I still have a hard time imagining that her singing it WAS what they were going to do....though, I HOPE it was meant to be in the background- but even then....yeah, too much. * (*Though, if there was a good parody of STM, I wouldn't mind that sequence being a musical number with Lois singing it to Supes' face above the clouds while intermittently puffing away on her marlboro cigarettes....I'd go with that) |
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 1, 2012 11:58:40 GMT -5
Jeff East's fake nose looks quite fake. They didn't quite get the color right, and it's much darker than his face. The day after the helicopter rescue, there are daytime photos of Superman on the newspapers which were impossible to take. "Heirs/ass" was an unfortunate mondegreen. Perhaps they should have reshot it with "son". Continuity errors of time travel - the earthquakes still happened, the gas station still blew up, but somehow the dam didn't break and the crack didn't swallow Lois' car. He didn't just turn back time, he changed history somehow  The flipped shot of Superman at Air Force One that booshman mentioned - pretty annoying. The fact that the superior, theatrical cut has been crapped on for two formats in a row. Fans were forced to settle for the extended cut for 5 years with each format before getting the theatrical cut again. In the extended cut, the credit for "Directed by Richard Donner" gets extra thunderous sound effects. How modest.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 12:09:49 GMT -5
Still....At least they didn't have Margot Kidder sing this, Jimbo. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 1, 2012 12:10:06 GMT -5
The fact that Superman drops Luthor off at a PRISON instead of a police station without any due process bugs me a bit. Imagine how anti-climatic it might have been had Superman lost Luthor altogether instead of dropping him off at the authorities Oh. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2012 12:20:04 GMT -5
Ye5man, your hidden love of SR is unstoppable. I see it for what it is now. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Mar 1, 2012 12:23:24 GMT -5
Oddly enough, I have no nitpicks about the film until BAM!! We get to Metropolis.
10. Visible wire when Lois is falling right before Supes saves her.
9. Supes' cape still at his back when standing sideways on building (should be at 45 degree angle, pointing at the floor).
8. Every shot of Superman holding up the plane (from inside the cockpit) is the same shot re-used. Superman looks at the pilots, I think, 3 times.
7. Lois has got to be pretty gullible to know that the index card is from Superman, but is NOT someone in the office. Moments like this in the film (where they push exposition on the audience and keep things moving very quickly) seem forced. I picture Donner arguing with the Salkinds about another scene where Supes and Lois plan their interview, but Salkinds said "Just have him leave her a note at the office".
6. Supes putting his hand to his face after telling Lois that she'd be the first to know if he was seeing someone. He seems like a child during that moment. It may have been Donner's intention to have Reeve deliver the line that way (since the 2 of them are supposed to be like children falling in love I guess), but it felt very "un-Superman-like".
5. "Can You Read My Mind" segment needs to be shorter. I have no problem with the Lois reading though. During this scene, all the money that went into the flying effects for it, I can see why the Salkinds had problems with Donner and the budget. This sequence could've been 2 1/2 minutes, 3 minutes tops, and still gotten the point across.
4. The entire Lex and missiles sequence feels rushed. The KCOP scenes help flesh out this portion of the film, but since we're already at the 2 hour mark, this is where Donner took too many liberties in the editing room. Granted, I wouldn't have put the ENTIRE thing back in, but maybe an extra 2 minutes to help us catch our breath.
3. Superman not being fast enough to catch both missiles. Again, the KCOP gave us the shot of Supes trying to stop it. This little scene was maybe 40 seconds long. I can't understand why it was ever taken out.
2. The effects for the water and rocks (when Superman is building the dam) don't hold up as well today. I can clearly see it's a miniature. Not sure if this was filmed later on and budget concerns meant cutting cost for this sequence, but those shots always take me out of the fantasy.
1. Superman flying around the Earth and going back in time. This of course, has to be the grandaddy. This movie moment is one of the few things I "Nerd Out" with in public conversation. Superman DID NOT reverse the Earth's rotation. He went back in time, and we are seeing it from his perspective. If he had flown in a straight line out into space and we saw the EXACT same imagery (time going backwards), NO ONE would be debating this 35 years later. I argue Supes circumnavigated the Earth so as to not overshoot his time trajectory by 10 thousand years (as opposed to 10 minutes), so it makes sense that he did it that way.
Unfortunately, not for the audience.
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 1, 2012 12:25:15 GMT -5
Imagine how anti-climatic it might have been had Superman lost Luthor altogether instead of dropping him off at the authorities Oh. That beats either a) leaving him alone at the North Pole to freeze to death or b) implying that he's still inside the Fortress when Superman destroys it. ;D Arctic police, save us! |
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 1, 2012 12:29:39 GMT -5
Superman DID NOT reverse the Earth's rotation. He went back in time, and we are seeing it from his perspective. No, I don't think that works. First he spins in one direction, and that makes the Earth stop and then begin reversing in direction. Then he STOPS, swings around, and then flies around it again in the other direction to restore the original rotation. If he were time traveling by himself (as in not physically adjusting the Earth), then there would have been no need for the second flight. That second flight was necessary to start time up again on Earth - according to the movie's rules. It's exactly as it appears, Earth moving the opposite direction = time reversal. Dumb. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2012 12:37:19 GMT -5
Imagine how anti-climatic it might have been had Superman lost Luthor altogether instead of dropping him off at the authorities Oh. It doesn't matter since he can always TURN BACK TIME and get him whenever.  Jeff East's fake nose looks quite fake. They didn't quite get the color right, and it's much darker than his face. The day after the helicopter rescue, there are daytime photos of Superman on the newspapers which were impossible to take. "Heirs/ass" was an unfortunate mondegreen. Perhaps they should have reshot it with "son". Continuity errors of time travel - the earthquakes still happened, the gas station still blew up, but somehow the dam didn't break and the crack didn't swallow Lois' car. He didn't just turn back time, he changed history somehow Thats why turning back time makes no sense. Was he fixing the fault at the same time he was now coming to save Lois? Since the quake stopped I'd assume so but then where does the other Superman go? Just cause he goes back it doesn't explain how everything else suddenly gets better. If there was ever a need for some Star Trek technobabble ;D Jeff Easts putty nose looks faker and faker every time I see it. |
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Melv
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Post by Melv on Mar 1, 2012 12:37:48 GMT -5
Superman DID NOT reverse the Earth's rotation. He went back in time, and we are seeing it from his perspective. Why, if that's the case, does he spin back the other way to have everything go forward again? It's obviously a badly though-out plot point that can't be explained better. If you have to make up your own retcon-type reasoning the filmmakers failed. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2012 12:52:21 GMT -5
Exactly Melv. When we have to come up with fanwank explanations its a poorly thought out resolution.
If he's just going back in time there's no point in him putting the rotation back in the proper direction. Is he going forward it time? that still doesn't explain how everything gets fixed unless there are two Supermen at once.
We've all tried the "its him going back in time" excuse but it makes even less sense.
Doesn't explain the sense of deja vu everybody experiences in the Donner Cut when he does it there.
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 1, 2012 13:09:27 GMT -5
Copied over from another thread:
What the heck was the US government thinking launching two test rockets with live 500 megaton yields over US soil? The leap in logic to make this a setup for the plot is outrageous.
That is dumber than anything in the prequels.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2012 13:14:34 GMT -5
I think testing of that nature would typically be done over the ocean so they could put them down over the water if something went wrong.n They'd both be launched from ships.
Doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to launch them from land bases. If they were testing the rockets why would they need live bombs/warheads in the first place? Thats insane.
The bombs themselves would be tested on a proving ground.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 1, 2012 13:21:53 GMT -5
6. Supes putting his hand to his face after telling Lois that she'd be the first to know if he was seeing someone. He seems like a child during that moment. It may have been Donner's intention to have Reeve deliver the line that way (since the 2 of them are supposed to be like children falling in love I guess), but it felt very "un-Superman-like". Is that a nit pick? ;D ;D |
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