MoS vs S3

[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 18:04:23 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Not to everyone. Reeve and the theme are in the sequels. That's all some people here want in a Superman movie.

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That and...yknow the good script good directing quality drama action set pieces that are well put together (and MOS was often lacking). That's why I've been watching and loving the heck out of STAS and BTAS and JL/JLU lately. And no Reeve or Williams theme in sight! Yay!

[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 17:45:55 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

I'll take any version of II over MoS.

Ditto. despite the flaws there's still more good in that movie. Either version.

Jun 26, 2013 18:02:29 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

man of steel mops the floor with the salkind sequels.

I think they may have dunked MOS in bleach and used it to mop under the WB office urinals before that. Those faded colors!

[Deleted]

MOS is joyless? Dahahahaha! Alright.

Batman and Robin is so colorful, what does that do for it?

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[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 18:35:30 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Personally, I want the best possible adaptation of the Superman comics I grew up enjoying--- story, direction, editing, casting. If it has a different interpretation, fine.... There's never anything perfect, so it depends on how many elements come through or seem stronger than the other at the end (Prime Example: X-men:First Class changed a lot of things unnecessarily, but what resulted was so good, I was fine with the changes). Cavill has a certain physical presence that feels dead on as Superman. At the same time, Routh has a specific presence that screams 'good guy superhero' as well. Cavill has less rough edges actingwise than Routh, but I'm (suprisingly) happy with either in the role.

MOS as a movie.... it's just not CRAFTED well imo. There are some great kickarse scenes, and I love the art direction, but I'm fine if it doesn't have Reeve nor the Donnerverse, but on its own terms- I honestly don't feel its well executed in a number of places and think even "Smallville" is a bit more successful, and I'm not crazy about how much that one really diverges from the source material. I don't care for being characterized as having bad judgement if I don't love this movie, I'd like to think everyone could just realize that people can have different reactions to a movie, and agree to disagree.

I think Goyer and Snyder got confused and mixed in a draft of a film version of Superman: Speeding Bullets

s.ecrater.com/stores/195336/4de9652682cfe_195336b.jpg

Except they uh...didn't know how to make it awesome.

I'd love to see it done as an animated film by the way. Please Mr Timm? Please make it in not cgi.

[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 19:19:46 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

MOS is joyless? Dahahahaha! Alright.

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Ok ok. I got some joy making fun of the dumb parts the were pretending to be good.

[Deleted]

So when he was learning to fly, you were checking your watch? During the interview scene, eyes were being rolled? The opening on Krypton must've just set you off on a borefest that you couldn't get out of it.

Again, to each their own, but goddamn, I just don't get it.

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[Metallo]

Some of that was pretty boring. Some of it was cool. But honestly we've seen bunch of that shit before. Did they watch Tranformers and Trek 09 for prep? Snyder's a dog that needs to learn a few more new tricks. In this day in age it's going to take a bit more than some cgi slathered on the screen to impress me. Maybe more than some by the numbers "drama" too.

The butt born baby filmmaking style of Nolan and Bay needed some more time in the colonic womb to ferment.

[EnriqueH]

I have to see the movie a second time.

I remember there were a few instances from the beginning to middle where I thought that MoS nailed it and successfully rebooted the series with a Batman Begins caliber film.

By the end, the film lost that. As I said, I've only seen the movie once and need a second viewing to examine it a bit more to find out where the movie lost me, because I can't tell you why it did. All I remember is that in the middle, my friend and I looked at each other and were like, "FUCKING AWESOME." When the credits started, we looked at each other again and said, casually, "I liked it."

I really think it has to do with the film lacking substance and going beyond eye candy and action.

Any way I slice it, I prefer Superman II, flaws and all, to MoS. Why? Because Superman II's strengths are stronger than MoS strengths and SII's strengths elevate the film.

MoS has strong performances, Superman II has iconic performances. Superman II makes me feel for the characters throughout, MoS does in tiny, tiny doses. Superman II has memorable music, I can't remember a SINGLE tune from MoS. MoS has better special effects, but they're emptier feeling because the story isn't a heartfelt as the one in SII.

I think it comes down to performances and story execution.

Oh, and chemistry among the cast. Everyone was strong individually, but I didn't sense much comraderie among the cast members.

[Deleted]

Gotta wonder how you'd feel if you viewed SII and MOS back to back having never seen either before. SII does have time, love and loyalty on its side. MOS has been out for a week.

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[MerM]

I know some of my problems with MOS are less against MOS specifically, and more toward recent trends in this sort of film.

I hated the shakycam, CGI carnage that goes on forever and ADD-friendly pacing, but those are elements seen in big moneymaking movies over the past few years. The powers that be demand MOS have them, and to some degree the audience expects it (not saying they're wrong, just that they're conditioned).

But just because other movies have these annoying tropes doesn't mean MOS gets a pass. Some of the films that use these do it well (even though the New York battle in Avengers goes on forever, it's entertaining and well-executed); I felt MOS didn't utilize them well.

[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 20:25:18 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Gotta wonder how you'd feel if you viewed SII and MOS back to back having never seen either before. SII does have time, love and loyalty on its side. MOS has been out for a week.

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Enrique and I seem to have some of the same tastes and while I won't speak for him I can say bias like that would never get in my way. If I saw both films for the first time at the same time my opinion would probably still be the same. I've always been able to enjoy films in the context of the time they were made. I've always been a big fan of the art form of film. When I watched HG Wells Things To Come for the first time (70 years after release) comparing it to modern films didn't make a difference one way or another.
I loved Superpowers growing up...but JLU was a better show. Loved Bixby as Banner...but had zero trouble accepting Ruffalo. Time and love and whatever else's doesn't make any difference in me saying that. People don't always let the newness of the movie sweep them up or get caught in nostalgia. Give some of us a little more credit than that.

To me at least SII IS flawed. But the good parts of it outweigh the good parts of MOS. And from a modern perspective it didn't even take me a week to figure out movies like Blade X-Men and Iron Man were not only good but would change the landscape when it came to these kinds of movies despite not being oblivious to their flaws.

[Deleted]

Well spoken other side of the argument, dude. I'll give you more credit but only you.

I'm fully aware of how prickish I'm being about all this, I don't know why I'm so defensive of MOS today. I guess I just enjoyed it so much I truly can't see how other Superman fans didn't. Like, literally, at all. Can't understand it. I guess that's my problem.

If it truly is Reevegoggles for some of you, well, it ain't like you'll ever admit it is, but that sucks! I'm sure there's at least two or three here. I would hope if you didn't enjoy MOS, it was because of its own flaws, not because it wasn't your old, favorite movie

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[EnriqueH]

Kevin, if a new movie is better than an old one, I'll straight up say so.

Take the new Battlestar Galactica.

Yeah, the old show has some cool shit, including nostalgia, but for me, the new show is clearly superior: better writing and better directing.

MoS has some cool shit going for it, but substance, writing, and chemistry is not one of them.

[Jor-L5150]

Jun 26, 2013 18:28:12 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Or neon. Or ridiculous over the top acting from pretty much every single actor in the movie except Kilmer and Gough.

To each their own, sure, but if you like Van Halen's "Tattoo" more than "Poundcake," ehhh...something's probably up.

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kev- are we lost twins?
(obviously you are taller and better looking...)

but that is a SUPERB analogy!

"tattoo" was van halen phoning it in- and causing epic panic among the fanbase. and for a band so wellknown for kick ass videos why was the video for tattoo so unbelievably shitty?
BUT- "a different kind of truth" is a superb record for =VH= , a worthy successor to 1984.
as a sammy fan, im used to the divisive fanbase. but FUCK is a GREAT hard rock record.

[Deleted]

I'm so glad you even took notice of my analogy. I was hoping someone would. I've been a Halen fan since, shit....they might be my first favorite band. Jump was one of my favorie songs as a child, and my uncle, who is more like my older brother since he's only ten years older than me, was hardcore into them so I was into them, too.

I love both Van Halen and Van Hagar equally. There's a maturity and power that comes with Hagar that Roth didn't have, but conversely, Hagar didn't have the youthful energy and charisma (read: attention hog) of Roth, so both are so different that it works so well. Like Joel and Mike on MST3K.

When...wow, this is off topic, but whatever, when I first heard Tattoo, you would've guessed someone shat in my lap from the face i was making. I hated it. Heard it a few more times. Became a punchline in my repertoire.

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[cypher85]

I guess I just enjoyed it so much I truly can't see how other Superman fans didn't. Like, literally, at all. Can't understand it. I guess that's my problem.

My sentiments exactly.

[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 21:22:55 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Well spoken other side of the argument, dude. I'll give you more credit but only you.

I'm fully aware of how prickish I'm being about all this, I don't know why I'm so defensive of MOS today. I guess I just enjoyed it so much I truly can't see how other Superman fans didn't. Like, literally, at all. Can't understand it. I guess that's my problem.

If it truly is Reevegoggles for some of you, well, it ain't like you'll ever admit it is, but that sucks! I'm sure there's at least two or three here. I would hope if you didn't enjoy MOS, it was because of its own flaws, not because it wasn't your old, favorite movie

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I know I didn't even think about STM when watching MOS. I was ready to give these guys a new clean fresh chance to create their own universe. This was Snyder and Cavills time. Donner's was done. Dcau was done. Nolan's trilogy was done. Burton's Batman was done. For me all that stuff was the past and I was ready to jump on this new adventure through a new universe whatever it was as long as it was good. For me at least these guys didn't get the job done. I didn't give a shit that it was different. That's fine. But a lot of it was just weakly executed. Flawless execution is why stuff like The Dcau changes for Brainiac and Mr Freeze worked. For me MOS wasn't about Reeve. I just wanted a quality product. I'm a movie fan and Superman fan in general before I'm a Reeve Supes movie fan.

[Metallo]

Jun 26, 2013 21:40:32 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Kevin, if a new movie is better than an old one, I'll straight up say so.

Take the new Battlestar Galactica.

Yeah, the old show has some cool shit, including nostalgia, but for me, the new show is clearly superior: better writing and better directing.

MoS has some cool shit going for it, but substance, writing, and chemistry is not one of them.

Exactly. I loved Burton's Batman. LOVED IT. Probably as much as Donners Superman. But I had no problem putting it aside for Nolan's.

[atp]

Metallo is right. This has nothing to do with being "unable to let go of STM".

I was totally ready for a brand new take and based on the trailers, I was expecting it to be even better than STM.


Unfortunately MoS is just not a great movie.

I also dont mind the fact that there is so much sci fi in it. Plenty of sci fi movies are also great stories with great characters. If MoS had been as well written as T2 or Aliens, we would not be disappointed.

Instead MoS is like Prometheus. Highly promising idea but executed poorly.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2013 12:55:04 GMT -5 atp said:

Metallo is right. This has nothing to do with being "unable to let go of STM".

I was totally ready for a brand new take and based on the trailers, I was expecting it to be even better than STM.


Unfortunately MoS is just not a great movie.

I also dont mind the fact that there is so much sci fi in it. Plenty of sci fi movies are also great stories with great characters. If MoS had been as well written as T2 or Aliens, we would not be disappointed.

Instead MoS is like Prometheus. Highly promising idea but executed poorly.

I think you'll be lucky to get anyone to believe that bullshit ATP

[cypher85]

So maybe that comment wasn't trolling, nice job. But, unfortunately we have to put up with the remaining 99% of your posts that are.

[Deleted]

So, ATP, your first viewing you liked it a lot, second you loved it and now somehow you think it's really disappointing?

Self fulfilling prophecy?

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[atp]

Trust me, when the dust settles and the euphoria wears off, many more people will realise it is disappointing.

That's not to say I didn't love certain parts of it. But as a full movie, it is a disappointment.

Not crap like the prequels. Just not a great movie.

[Deleted]

We'll see

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[atp]

There is definitely an incredible buzz you get, just from the fact that you are in the cinema watching a new Superman on the big screen. I can't deny that.

The question is, will that euphoria last?