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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 2, 2013 13:10:13 GMT -5
I have to say having Snyder aboard worries me more than anything because the main flaws in MOS are the same flaws in Snyder's last two films.
As I mentioned many, many times: I really enjoyed Dawn of the Dead and 300. But I have increasingly seen Snyder begin to fail in his ability to make the audience care about what's going on. Watchmen was a mixed bag, but Sucker Punch *CLEARLY* demonstrates EXACTLY what I'm talking about: great visuals, but they feel empty and are presented in a way that doesn't make the audience care.
MOS had some of that too, although it did have a better cast, which might've been the difference.
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 13:26:05 GMT -5
Having said everything I have, I have to admit I might backpedal a bit, (but only a bit since the same creative team practically ensures the same flaws), if they announce either of the following actors as Batman: 1. Christian Bale 2. Josh Brolin (as Kevin said) 3. JGL (although he doesn't quite have the stature at this point) 4. Gerard Butler (I like Butler and feel that he's kinda underappreciated because of all the shit films he's done, but I think he can and will shine with the right material) I think and older Batman is a mistake but I'd be very interested to see what Brolin could do with the role. The mans a great actor. Like I said before Urban is another good choice. Id even give Butler a chance. If its him we may as well get Lena Headey as Wonder Woman and form the Brit League.  I really did think Butler and Headey as Jor El and Lara would have been cool even though it might have taken a lot of people right of of the movie. My gut says Bale is done. Nolans mostly just picking up paychecks for use of his name on these flicks. There would still be the problem of Bales long term involvement. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 13:30:19 GMT -5
I have to say having Snyder aboard worries me more than anything because the main flaws in MOS are the same flaws in Snyder's last two films. As I mentioned many, many times: I really enjoyed Dawn of the Dead and 300. But I have increasingly seen Snyder begin to fail in his ability to make the audience care about what's going on. Watchmen was a mixed bag, but Sucker Punch *CLEARLY* demonstrates EXACTLY what I'm talking about: great visuals, but they feel empty and are presented in a way that doesn't make the audience care. MOS had some of that too, although it did have a better cast, which might've been the difference. Snyder's "best" movies all have pretty detailed blueprints laid out for him by old masters. Even Dawn of the Dead was basically Romero's vision with a 28 Days Later twist. And he still diluted the great character work in the original when he chopped up elements of the four leads to spread them around for the remakes larger cast of characters. By himself with no one to guide him Snyder doesn't "get it" beyond visual spectacle and even then he doesn't know how to use it. There's so much stuff in Watchmen that went right over his head. Just right over. Those costumes were never supposed to look cool for one. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 13:37:08 GMT -5
i am not going to panic- YET. when i read that snyder said something like "regardless of how i feel about superman i will have to go along with whatthe studio wants." THAT told me what i suspected the moment batman/superman was announced. i have speculated here and elsewhere that WB had a list of contingencies for MoS with regard to the BO take and for building the shared universe. as many of you say- if MoS was a runaway like TDK then they would (likely) not be adding batman to the mix, as snyder's comments suggest this was a plan B, second best case scenario. if the last TWO batman movies make over a billion, and superman makes between 2/3 and 3/4 of a billion then adding the two- on paper- seems like a sure way to make a lot of $$. im not worried about the concept of worlds finest (i have lamented that tehy didnt do "asylum" back in 02) - its all in the execution. many (certainly not all) of us believe that snyder was actually a strength for MoS and goyer somewhat underperformed. ( we HAVE a thread for THAT - so PLEASE!! ) so what gives me pause is that snyder, who i have grown to really like, could be working on a movie he isnt happy about, and that the lead, henry cavil, - who certainly was a strong (possibly most saving) element to the success of MoS- who could justifiably be miffed at being relegated to any degree so soon. but its all going to come down to execution. MoS was much more on-the-level than i would thought from snyder a couple years ago, and DC is almost certainly going to insist on some content mandates. as to frank miller, yeah his best work is behind him- but i think the scheduled meeting has at least SOMETHING to do with the 300 spinoff that snyder is producing. of course they are going to have conversations about superman vs batman. but i wouldnt read too much yet- but i have ZERO boubt thatthe first full trailer for MoSII/SvsB will have an aerial shot of superman and batman grappling over the city and wailing on each other, and batman wil have kryptonite gauntlets or something. THAT shot is happening. and its going to look COOL. but a lot can happen. is it too late for snyder to wiggle out? is he THAT disappointed that he even wants to? cavil is a pro- but is he going to be keen on sharing the lead? will we be hearing about new writers while well into production? on the other hand, if ARROW continues to be a success, adds flash and others, flash gets a cool show of his own- then WB will have really ramped up their shared universe rather quickly. maybe adding batman to MoS is an escalation of schedule, BECAUSE of MoS' success, not a "desperation". its going to be a fascinating couple summers here before we see it all shake out. The new 300 movie is already in the can right? Not much they could talk about there. They would have talked about that ages ago. Arrows a decent sized fish in a SMALL Pond. There's still no guarantee they will connect it with MOSs film universe. Batman/Superman was one option on the table. You're right there. It wasn't THE plan. WBs done it that way for years. Just like they had BvsS Year One and Batman Beyond movies all in development at the same time. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 13:45:06 GMT -5
Having said everything I have, I have to admit I might backpedal a bit, (but only a bit since the same creative team practically ensures the same flaws), if they announce either of the following actors as Batman: 1. Christian Bale2. Josh Brolin (as Kevin said) 3. JGL (although he doesn't quite have the stature at this point) 4. Gerard Butler (I like Butler and feel that he's kinda underappreciated because of all the shit films he's done, but I think he can and will shine with the right material) if they dust off petersons "asylum" script and tweak it to MoS universe then theyd have a great story, that plays on the idea of a batman coming out of retirement. bale or a slightly older batman would make for a good mix. What's interesting about the Peterson films script was it was clearly mean to be a loose continuation of the Burton continuity (and maybe Schumacher's films too) and also left enough wiggle room to be connected to the Reeve films and maybe even Lois & Clark's continuity. They'd have to do some serious reworking to make it fit Bruce Wayne's situation post Rises. Gotham thinks Wayne is dead and the Manor has been turned into a home for orphans. His financial situation could be straightened out as could company control but he'd have to be "resurrected" first. I imagine the fake wedding would have to be cut out too and they'd have to deal with Selina Kyle somehow. Unless they make her the one joker kills. Joker would have to be recast if they kept him in but at least the could drop all they cloning stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 13:59:21 GMT -5
I find news of Snyders meeting with Frank Miller quite disturbing. I don't really want him taking ideas from a cock who bastardized Superman for TDKR. Last thing we need is Batman being portrayed as a genius alongside a Superman who's basically a retard with powers. Agreed Kris. Is not even the GOOD Frank Miller anymore. Millers been a no talent hack bastard for years. Dark Knight Strikes again was like printed diarrhea. The Spirit was so awful it was like seeing Millers rampant ego take a flaming piss all over Will Eisner's grave. He always said Orion tucked him over when he was writing Robocop 2 and 3. I read his comic book adaptation of his original scripts. It was shit. Crusty corn filled shit. Frank Miller lost it years ago and between that and being up his own ass he has no useful advice to give. His entire view on the characters and the source materials has been distorted through his ego. All Star Batman still makes me to WTF? It's got to be Miller taking the piss as you guys call it. The thought of his version of a Superman/Batman type battle on the big screen would be horrible for any Superman fan. Plus Batman has to win doesn't he? It's seen as being more creative if he does, you know you couldn't have the superpowered one coming out on top, it's too obvious, so let's make him a retard who gets out thought by Batman. To be honest I don't even know why yourself, ATP or Enrique would bother even checking this film out. The tone has been set so you know which way they're going with it, if you don't like the director and didn't like MOS there's practically no chance you'll like it, or if you're ATP and just want STM cloned, unless ofcourse its SR, in which case you don't like that either  If Gerard Butler is cast as Batman then I'm out, he's not very good. Josh Brolin? fuck yes, I'd take that in a heart beat. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 2, 2013 14:01:39 GMT -5
they just need to plagarize the batman eps from S:TAS. word for word. storyboard by storyboard.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 14:15:22 GMT -5
Agreed Kris. Is not even the GOOD Frank Miller anymore. Millers been a no talent hack bastard for years. Dark Knight Strikes again was like printed diarrhea. The Spirit was so awful it was like seeing Millers rampant ego take a flaming piss all over Will Eisner's grave. He always said Orion tucked him over when he was writing Robocop 2 and 3. I read his comic book adaptation of his original scripts. It was shit. Crusty corn filled shit. Frank Miller lost it years ago and between that and being up his own ass he has no useful advice to give. His entire view on the characters and the source materials has been distorted through his ego. All Star Batman still makes me to WTF? It's got to be Miller taking the piss as you guys call it. The thought of his version of a Superman/Batman type battle on the big screen would be horrible for any Superman fan. Plus Batman has to win doesn't he? It's seen as being more creative if he does, you know you couldn't have the superpowered one coming out on top, it's too obvious, so let's make him a retard who gets out thought by Batman. To be honest I don't even know why yourself, ATP or Enrique would bother even checking this film out. The tone has been set so you know which way they're going with it, if you don't like the director and didn't like MOS there's practically no chance you'll like it, or if you're ATP and just want STM cloned, unless ofcourse its SR, in which case you don't like that either If Gerard Butler is cast as Batman then I'm out, he's not very good. Josh Brolin? fuck yes, I'd take that in a heart beat. Id watch it cause I'm a fan and because of the novelty. It's a first. Like I said before even the worst films have SOME things I enjoy. I've never been an all or nothing guy when it comes to movies. You should know that by now Kris. . Think about all the crappy movies we've talked about that I've seen. I'd rather not have Butler since I think there are other actors with better looks for the role and a more accurately fitting disposition. But I'd give him a shot if he were cast. When I think Butler I don't think the dashing sometimes carefree playboy Bruce Wayne. I could see Brolin pulling that off far better. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 14:17:47 GMT -5
they just need to plagarize the batman eps from S:TAS. word for word. storyboard by storyboard. THIS. Of course with Snyder and Goyer they still might miss the point and the spirit even if they did a slavish recreation. Makes me think of Schumacher taking Dinis Mr Freeze and not understanding it at all. But a blueprint is already there for a great Batman Superman movie. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 14:22:03 GMT -5
The thought of his version of a Superman/Batman type battle on the big screen would be horrible for any Superman fan. Plus Batman has to win doesn't he? It's seen as being more creative if he does, you know you couldn't have the superpowered one coming out on top, it's too obvious, so let's make him a retard who gets out thought by Batman. To be honest I don't even know why yourself, ATP or Enrique would bother even checking this film out. The tone has been set so you know which way they're going with it, if you don't like the director and didn't like MOS there's practically no chance you'll like it, or if you're ATP and just want STM cloned, unless ofcourse its SR, in which case you don't like that either If Gerard Butler is cast as Batman then I'm out, he's not very good. Josh Brolin? fuck yes, I'd take that in a heart beat. Id watch it cause I'm a fan and because of the novelty. It's a first. Like I said before even the worst films have SOME things I enjoy. I've never been an all or nothing guy when it comes to movies. You should know that by now Kris. . Think about all the crappy movies we've talked about that I've seen. I'd rather not have Butler since I think there are other actors with better looks for the role and a more accurately fitting disposition. But I'd give him a shot if he were cast. When I think Butler intent think the dashing sometimes carefree playboy Bruce Wayne. I could see Brolin pulling that off far better. Well I suppose you're always likely to see it out of sheer curiosity. Or you could whinge about it relentlessly and yet go and see it 4 times like other people I just wouldnt want Butler atall, I just don't rate him. Definitely agree, I could see Brolin fitting that side of Wayne's character. But none of this will matter if they take any of their inspiration from Miller's turds. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 2, 2013 14:23:43 GMT -5
My gut says Bale is done. Nolans mostly just picking up paychecks for use of his name on these flicks. There would still be the problem of Bales long term involvement. exactly. if WB really really wanted to, they could give him his salary for 1 or 2 weeks of filming, and have in the movie all of 20 minutes and that could work for MoS2. but what then? have him make 20 million for 15 minutes in JL? how old will he be for JL2? now, the gordon-levitt route, could work- a young batman, grandfather in the nolan batman, and spend less, have a fairly equitable amount of screen time. BUT_ a LOT of fans (and i like gordon levitt for it, but i get this) will be PISSED that a batman is NOT bruce. especially for an epic, first time in live action blockbuster film. a batman beyond with geezer bruce? sure- theres a movie there- but a 30's-ish batman who is NOT THE batman? it would escalate fan division. so i think your instinct is right, a short term commercial decision would cripple long term plans. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 14:26:05 GMT -5
Here's a thought: Judging by Snyder's comment, he doesn't seem like he's in control of jack shit. What if he decides he doesn't want to be forced to make a shared movie and says, 'fuck it, I'm out'? Could WB scramble fast enough to get a new director in time for 2015?
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 14:28:53 GMT -5
Id watch it cause I'm a fan and because of the novelty. It's a first. Like I said before even the worst films have SOME things I enjoy. I've never been an all or nothing guy when it comes to movies. You should know that by now Kris. . Think about all the crappy movies we've talked about that I've seen. I'd rather not have Butler since I think there are other actors with better looks for the role and a more accurately fitting disposition. But I'd give him a shot if he were cast. When I think Butler intent think the dashing sometimes carefree playboy Bruce Wayne. I could see Brolin pulling that off far better. Well I suppose you're always likely to see it out of sheer curiosity. Or you could whinge about it relentlessly and yet go and see it 4 times like other people I just wouldnt want Butler atall, I just don't rate him. Definitely agree, I could see Brolin fitting that side of Wayne's character. But none of this will matter if they take any of their inspiration from Miller's turds. Nah of I see it and don't like it Ill only see it once. And even then it might not be by traditional means. Brolins already played one rich idiot playing hero. Playboy Wayne should be a cakewalk. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 2, 2013 14:31:27 GMT -5
Here's a thought: Judging by Snyder's comment, he doesn't seem like he's in control of jack shit. What if he decides he doesn't want to be forced to make a shared movie and says, 'fuck it, I'm out'? Could WB scramble fast enough to get a new director in time for 2015? yeah- like i said on the last page- you and i thinking alike here. IF we see signs that snyder wants out- then it will be VERY revealing. if he doesnt really WANT out, then ill feel a bit more at ease. if snyder wants out, but is locked- it could be a BIG problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 14:33:56 GMT -5
I think we all know Snyder and Goyer didnt say 'Hey lets include Batman', we know WB said 'You will do a Superman film with Batman' as a direct order.
Probably comes down to what tallo said once, about Snyder probably being a bit of a yes man for the studio.
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 14:34:11 GMT -5
Here's a thought: Judging by Snyder's comment, he doesn't seem like he's in control of jack shit. What if he decides he doesn't want to be forced to make a shared movie and says, 'fuck it, I'm out'? Could WB scramble fast enough to get a new director in time for 2015? I might be wrong but I have this feeling Snyder's their boy. Their hired gun. He's not someone with so much artistic integrity that hed walk out if he doesn't get his way. They HANDED the guy a sweet fucking deal on a silver platter after three underperformers. He knows that. I'm sure he likes the opportunities this will afford him even if he doesn't like it. Not to mention the money. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 14:36:01 GMT -5
Here's a thought: Judging by Snyder's comment, he doesn't seem like he's in control of jack shit. What if he decides he doesn't want to be forced to make a shared movie and says, 'fuck it, I'm out'? Could WB scramble fast enough to get a new director in time for 2015? I might be wrong but I have this feeling Snyder's their boy. Their hired gun. He's not someone with so much artistic integrity that hed walk out if he doesn't get his way. They HANDED the guy a sweet fucking deal on a silver platter after three underperformers. He knows that. I'm sure he likes the opportunities this will afford him even if he doesn't like it. Not to mention the money. He may be a hired gun, but is he all that bright? A hired gun wouldn't have stuck his foot in his mouth in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 14:36:49 GMT -5
Here's a thought: Judging by Snyder's comment, he doesn't seem like he's in control of jack shit. What if he decides he doesn't want to be forced to make a shared movie and says, 'fuck it, I'm out'? Could WB scramble fast enough to get a new director in time for 2015? yeah- like i said on the last page- you and i thinking alike here. IF we see signs that snyder wants out- then it will be VERY revealing. if he doesnt really WANT out, then ill feel a bit more at ease. if snyder wants out, but is locked- it could be a BIG problem. Shocked by that statement, simply shocked, I say! |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 14:51:10 GMT -5
I think we all know Snyder and Goyer didnt say 'Hey lets include Batman', we know WB said 'You will do a Superman film with Batman' as a direct order. Probably comes down to what tallo said once, about Snyder probably being a bit of a yes man for the studio. Exactly. Snyder isn't a Vaughn or Del Toro or Aronofsky who will walk way from a superhero movie because its not going exactly the way he wants. Snyder's lucky to have this job. They didn't HAVE to pick him. I think he and Goyer want to have big careers in Hollywood. Would they really turn don't the chance to be what JJ Abrams is now or what Nolan is now: The chance to be major players who call their own shots? Snyder would be insane to turn that down and go back to unsure projects. If this all makes WB big money Snyder will be able to do what he wants to do. I don't think these guys love what's going on but they see a big opportunity. They can do the "one for them" deal then later on do whatever they want. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2013 14:57:29 GMT -5
I might be wrong but I have this feeling Snyder's their boy. Their hired gun. He's not someone with so much artistic integrity that hed walk out if he doesn't get his way. They HANDED the guy a sweet fucking deal on a silver platter after three underperformers. He knows that. I'm sure he likes the opportunities this will afford him even if he doesn't like it. Not to mention the money. He may be a hired gun, but is he all that bright? A hired gun wouldn't have stuck his foot in his mouth in the first place. I don't think he's all that bright compared to other better directors. That's all the more reason to think he's not going anywhere and why WB hired him int he first place. He will do what they tell him to do and not raise a big stink. A brighter director as you put it would consider moving on to the next project like Vaughn's done twice with the X-Men series. He knows he's good enough and versatile enough to get something else going.. Studios depend on guys like Snyder these days. And MOS still made a ton of money. He's already in there and the some works already finished so why rock the boat? Someone like JJ Abrams can call his own shots now so he can afford to walk. If Snyder goes I can see it being the studios choice before its his choice. But they seem to be happy with him. They've stuck with him for a long time. They know his style can make money if used right. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 5, 2013 22:17:01 GMT -5
I don't fault Snyder for any motivations he (or even Brett Ratner for doing X3) have for doing the film--- But mainly what concerns me is the final result, which was disappointing to me.
It's a shame, because I do think that he really did care about the project, but I just think he may have incredibly bad judgement when it comes to drama. (Sucker Punch and parts of Watchmen back this up).
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 6, 2013 1:11:08 GMT -5
Supermanhomepage is saying the casting rumors so far are bunk.
(As with mos- there's a lot of talent agents "leaking" bs for attention and there's probably wb floating some trial balloons).
They also say that "public enemies" and the "worlds finest" mini are on snyders desk as he and goyer hammer out the script.
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Post by Keith on Aug 6, 2013 7:21:51 GMT -5
A mix of public enemies and worlds finest could actually work.. Does that mean we'd get Joker too? Or would it be more Luthor with some recruited baddies...Metallo would be great to bring in. A guy that was found in the rubble from the Supes/Zod fight barely alive, Luthor experiments with him and creates Metallo. Which would bring in batman to save superman from kryptonite. I dunno, something good could come from this but I'm still cautious about this sequel. I really don't know what to think of this yet. I wish batman wasn't going to be an older batman in his 40's.
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Post by Metallo on Aug 6, 2013 7:53:00 GMT -5
I sure hope all that is true. I'm sure WB has a wish list but it seems too soon for Snyder to have actually met with anyone did even made up his mind on a short list. There is no script yet.
The Batman on Film guys seem to be talking about what they want and they're pretty into Nolans take. A lot of things could change on the fly.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 6, 2013 11:25:51 GMT -5
A mix of public enemies and worlds finest could actually work.. Does that mean we'd get Joker too? Or would it be more Luthor with some recruited baddies...Metallo would be great to bring in. A guy that was found in the rubble from the Supes/Zod fight barely alive, Luthor experiments with him and creates Metallo. Which would bring in batman to save superman from kryptonite. I dunno, something good could come from this but I'm still cautious about this sequel. I really don't know what to think of this yet. I wish batman wasn't going to be an older batman in his 40's. Yeah all of that- keep it a SUPERMAN movie- with batman in it. Wayne and luthor are corporate partners, batman initially agrees with luthors distrust of superman, use superman villains. Luthor creates metallo as "alien deterrent". Keep joker and batman villains out of it. Make luthor have political ambition. Maybe he could be president in justice league.... |
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