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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 4, 2013 23:14:56 GMT -5
So let's take Reeve out of the equation, and for that matter, let's take out George Reeves too.
I'm a big fan of Dean Cain's Clark, but I gotta go with Tim Daly on Superman (but it has been AGES since I've seen TAS). And I don't mean to start a fight, but I really don't think Routh, Cavill or Cain really nailed Superman.
I really, really, really NEED to see MOS because I've practically forgotten the film. I remember Crowe and Costner's shitty deaths, I have vague memories of cool Krypton stuff, vague memories of Cavill moping around, and hazy memories of Superman and Zod fighting.
I am under the impression that Routh and Cavill have more in common than people are realizing.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 8:45:34 GMT -5
Rouths my favorite live action Superman. Tim Dalys the best overall so I voted for him. I know you left em off for space reasons but I'd put a LOT of the animated Supermen/voice actors over all of the live action guys you listed. George Newbern, Kyle McLaughlin, Mark Harmon, and Beau Weaver among others impressed me way more than any of the live action guys from the last 20 years or so.
I think Cavill had the most screen presence and imposing nature but Routh had far more of Supermans natural earnestness. Routh may have been bland or stiff a times but Cavill came off as hard and cold even when he wasnt supposed to like when he was TRYING to earn people's trust or be "the hero" it's a tough choice but I preferred Routh because when it comes down to it Superman really is "a friend" and he's a hero of the people. I felt like Routh got to convey that far better. Like Singer said I think he really is very much like the character in many ways. Especially Clark. But you're right they both have some of the same problems. Cavill delivers his lines better but he doesn't make much of an emotional connection most of the time.
If Cavill got a better director and writer I think he'd have the material to convey more warmth and a strong director could get it out of him even though I still find Routh to be naturally more likable despite being pretty cardboard sometimes. That's just something intrinsic to the person.
Cain was more at ease and likable enough most of the time but as soon as he put on the suit he never looked convincing. He was stiff and seemed overly self conscious at times. You could tell he wasn't comfortable and that's some thing all the others were. Even Routh and Cavill where more at home in the suit playing Superman. It should be natural but Cain had the hardest time with that.
Welling was Superman for all of two minutes and it it was so hilariously and poorly handled that I dont think he doesn't even deserve to be on the list with the other guys. That and his acting was like watching a deer in headlights. If Cavill was the most manly and macho Welling was the least by lacking in any imposing screen feel despite being a big dude.
When I think about which Superman of the last 30 years could lead a Justice League it's Reeve. He was by far the best orator of all these guys. He's the one you could buy getting in front of his team and giving the big inspirational talk. None of the other live action guys really convinced me they could do that. He had the confidence the charm the depth of character the brains to be an effective leader. That's why he was so good at leading a cause later on in life
Reeve always looked equally at home with the elites like the Kennedy's and the Hollywood progressives as he did with normal everyday people. What is the JLA if not the elites? WB should have made this movie before Reeve had his accident.
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Post by atp on Aug 5, 2013 14:02:27 GMT -5
Rouths my favorite live action Superman.... I think Cavill had the most screen presence and imposing nature but Routh had far more of Supermans natural earnestness. Routh may have been bland or stiff a times but Cavill came off as hard and cold even when he wasnt supposed to like when he was TRYING to earn people's trust or be "the hero" it's a tough choice but I preferred Routh because when it comes down to it Superman really is "a friend" and he's a hero of the people. I felt like Routh got to convey that far better. Like Singer said I think he really is very much like the character in many ways. Especially Clark. But you're right they both have some of the same problems. Cavill delivers his lines better but he doesn't make much of an emotional connection most of the time. If Cavill got a better director and writer I think he'd have the material to convey more warmth and a strong director could get it out of him even though I still find Routh to be naturally more likable despite being pretty cardboard sometimes. That's just something intrinsic to the person. I actually agree with this. If Routh had got the MoS costume, and had more to do, I think he'd have fared better. His Superman definitely has more likeability and natural connection than Cavill's. I can think of two possible theories about why Cavill's Superman comes off as hard and cold: a) Maybe it's because Cavill isn't American. Maybe it's hard enough for him just to act and sound American, and that trying to convey Superman's warmth on top of that is asking too much. It's expecting him to act a role on top of a role. b) The Superman in MoS is deliberately portrayed as not liking humans very much. I can't say I would blame him, to be honest. Since childhood, he has been bullied, teased and ostracised by human beings. And then that guy in the bar treated him like dirt too. If I were Kal-El, I would have said "to heck with this" and also not given a fuck about people. |
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Post by ye5man on Aug 5, 2013 14:23:17 GMT -5
That's prob my biggest problem with MoS
All his life he wanted to "hit back"
Is that Superman?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 14:28:22 GMT -5
....well....actually...yes...watch the series finale of Justice League Unlimited. It's not only one of the greatest episodes of one of the greatest series ever, it also showcases Superman saying literally just that. It's amazing, and it's brutal.
He's said it a lot in the comics, too. It's nothing created for MOS. Superman holding back and watching to punch back is a part of his mythos.
I voted for Tim Daly. His run on STAS is my favorite Superman thing like...ever. STM is my favorite movie ever but STAS is my favorite Superman. It's perfect. Newburn does a fantastic job, too, he gets into the groove of it all, but Daly just owns. Both Clark and Superman.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 5, 2013 15:08:03 GMT -5
Wow enrique, a poll that isn't brazenly redundant...
Cavill owns it for me. Like most here nothing and no one will dethrone chris reeve or stm. But cavils my boy.
Routh and daly tied at close second.
In terms of live action welling and the superboy season 1 just do nothing for me. I like gerard christopher (met him a couple times -he's cool). But if i watch superboy its for lana.
I like the cast of lois and clark- just can't stand the show.
In animation tim daly is perfect. Right up with bud collyer.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 5, 2013 15:35:13 GMT -5
Is he waiting to hit back, or does being beat up all his life and having to take it make him empathize more for those who were bullied/oppressed and make him want to fight for them?
I guess you could say both- but...
I still think Captain America the movie (the new one) got the spirit of Superman's character more 'right' than MOS did (And Steve Rogers also was bulled/oppressed there, too--- also by his own men initially)--- but, given how long the comics/books/movies/tv shows have added to the mythos, I guess it really is up to the individual to decide what they feel is the 'correct' interpretation...
Long ago, the ideal 'hero' seemed to be one who was above it all, and would find a way NOT to kill the villain, not feel a need to avenge himself for slights, that there was room for redemption for everybody.
Kirk had this even with Star Trek III- where he tries to save the guy who killed his SON- until the guy pushes him into a case where he has no choice. But, even though the movie is OLD, I still remember that moment where he gave the guy a chance to live. Even now, I think it's moving, because I know I couldn't do that, given the situation...
I miss that quality in our fictional heroes, but I guess that's an outdated idea....
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 5, 2013 15:46:23 GMT -5
....well....actually...yes...watch the series finale of Justice League Unlimited. It's not only one of the greatest episodes of one of the greatest series ever, it also showcases Superman saying literally just that. It's amazing, and it's brutal. He's said it a lot in the comics, too. It's nothing created for MOS. Superman holding back and watching to punch back is a part of his mythos. I voted for Tim Daly. His run on STAS is my favorite Superman thing like...ever. STM is my favorite movie ever but STAS is my favorite Superman. It's perfect. Newburn does a fantastic job, too, he gets into the groove of it all, but Daly just owns. Both Clark and Superman. You're not wrong. But defending MoS is like spitting in the wind lol.... ..but hey, our buddy belloq takes all kinds of shit for even admitting there IS an INDY 4, enrique thinks the prequels are better than LOTR... We can't help what we fall in love with... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 5, 2013 16:03:46 GMT -5
True... I used to get REALLY frustrated when SR would get attacked in the past for being a cheap knockoff, and I'd rush to its defense- but....and it took a lot of time before I realized this- there's no point in the end. It's like arguing that apples are better than oranges to someone who prefers oranges. In any case-- MOS won big box office from enough people and will definitely a sequel--- SR didn't and won't ever.... so, isn't that enough to feel good about MOS?  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 16:09:36 GMT -5
All the moaning that gets done about MOS and Routh got 3 votes  A Superman who rehashed some STM lines, did a loose imitation of Reeve, cried and spied, got his ass kicked, and for many scenes in the film looked like an underwear model. Cavill's final scene as Superman with the General pissed all over any of the Superman scenes in SR, but then that's the first scene where he's truly Superman, declares his desire to help humanity etc etc. ps. we're not speculating about Cavill's Superman not being right on board with humanity, he actually has lines in the film which make it clear he isn't, he tells the priest he can't trust Zod but he can't trust humans either. I went for Cavill anyway just because I prefer live action stuff, but Daly is fucking brilliant voicing Superman. Oh and whoever voted Welling needs to be euthanized |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 16:12:36 GMT -5
....well....actually...yes...watch the series finale of Justice League Unlimited. It's not only one of the greatest episodes of one of the greatest series ever, it also showcases Superman saying literally just that. It's amazing, and it's brutal. He's said it a lot in the comics, too. It's nothing created for MOS. Superman holding back and watching to punch back is a part of his mythos. I voted for Tim Daly. His run on STAS is my favorite Superman thing like...ever. STM is my favorite movie ever but STAS is my favorite Superman. It's perfect. Newburn does a fantastic job, too, he gets into the groove of it all, but Daly just owns. Both Clark and Superman. Well hitting back and holding back aren't the same thing. Even in STAS and JL/JLU he punched the heck out of bad guys all the time. He kicked Brainiacs ass when he a high school kid! In the JLU finale he talks about HOLDING BACK...for fear of hurting someone if he cut loose. Even when he punched somebody back it was never usually some normal guy and he was always mindful of his surroundings. In MOS he sure as shit didn't have that problem when he fought Zod. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 16:18:56 GMT -5
All the moaning that gets done about MOS and Routh got 3 votes A Superman who rehashed some STM lines, did a loose imitation of Reeve, cried and spied, got his ass kicked, and for many scenes in the film looked like an underwear model. Cavill's final scene as Superman with the General pissed all over any of the Superman scenes in SR, but then that's the first scene where he's truly Superman, declares his desire to help humanity etc etc. ps. we're not speculating about Cavill's Superman not being right on board with humanity, he actually has lines in the film which make it clear he isn't, he tells the priest he can't trust Zod but he can't trust humans either. I went for Cavill anyway just because I prefer live action stuff, but Daly is fucking brilliant voicing Superman. Oh and whoever voted Welling needs to be euthanized Right. Stiff boring anti authority Superman who's doing it his way. After he let a good chunk of Metropolis get wrecked his way. God forbid he at least understands the governments concerns after what happened. Cavill wasn't copying any past Superman. He was too busy copying Goku from DBZ  He left the copying of STM and II to his bosses. To flip what you said...for all the talk about how bad SR and Routh were and how much better MOS is Cavill is in a three way tie. If the poll was just live action guys I'd have voted for Routh and he'd be winning for now. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 16:23:15 GMT -5
and yet you voted for a stiffer, more boring version who had a danger wank in the bushes and broke into a little boys bedroom He doesn't on here, and the highest number of votes for any actor is a whopping 3. Head over to SHH to check their Superman poll, it's hundreds of votes and the results will have you spewing |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 16:27:21 GMT -5
and yet you voted for a stiffer, more boring version who had a danger wank in the bushes and broke into a little boys bedroom Dude learn to read. I said I voted for TIM DALY. Daly pisses over all the other guys. Including Cavill. If I had voted for Routh I'd take the so called "stalker" dad over mass Killerman who left thousands of kids without dads. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 16:33:58 GMT -5
and yet you voted for a stiffer, more boring version who had a danger wank in the bushes and broke into a little boys bedroom Dude learn to read. I said I voted for TIM DALY. Daly pisses over all the other guys. Including Cavill. If I had voted for Routh I'd take the so called "stalker" dad over mass Killerman who left thousands of kids without dads. My apologies, but you'd vote for Routh over Cavill anyway so the point still stands Remember when Routh lifted the continent so parts collapsed crushing and killing Luthor's henchmen? I remember MOS Superman saving the planet, apparently he was supposed to abandon that idea to save them all one at a time. Dont give up your day job as Marvel's PR man |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 16:35:03 GMT -5
He doesn't on here, and the highest number of votes for any actor is a whopping 3. Head over to SHH to check their Superman poll, it's hundreds of votes and the results will have you spewing The hype full of a bunch of fanboys who jump on the bandwagon of any new big thing and how kewl the action is. That's not exactly a microcosm of the rest of the world. At least I hope not. Lots of the hypesters also think NOLANS Batman is the best ever. That might have you spewing, Kris. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 16:40:58 GMT -5
I'm well aware of the huge love for Nolan's Batman, I've never tried to deny it, I myself loved the first one. The hypes full of a bunch of fanboys? the irony It wasn't started up as a tribute to Donner's Superman films so I'd say it's far better judge of what people think given votes are coming from people of all ages and even people who aren't necessarily Superman fans. But by all means discount it if it doesn't suit your agenda |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 16:42:03 GMT -5
Dude learn to read. I said I voted for TIM DALY. Daly pisses over all the other guys. Including Cavill. If I had voted for Routh I'd take the so called "stalker" dad over mass Killerman who left thousands of kids without dads. My apologies, but you'd vote for Routh over Cavill anyway so the point still stands Remember when Routh lifted the continent so parts collapsed crushing and killing Luthor's henchmen? I remember MOS Superman saving the planet, apparently he was supposed to abandon that idea to save them all one at a time. Dont give up your day job as Marvel's PR man He fought Zod AFTER the world engine was stopped. World wasn't in immediate danger anymore. Didn't both Supermen save the world? Luthors henchman were too stupid to get off the island even though they had the means. Rouths Superman didn't leave them stranded there. Snyderman letting thousands die in the destruction of a metropolis without doing more to stop it was much worse. Don't give up your day job as Cavills PR man. They need you a lot more since MOS couldn't get the job done on its own. Marvel doesn't need me. They're kicking MOS and WBS asses just fine on their own. |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 16:47:14 GMT -5
I'm well aware of the huge love for Nolan's Batman, I've never tried to deny it, I myself loved the first one. The hypes full of a bunch of fanboys? the irony It wasn't started up as a tribute to Donner's Superman films so I'd say it's far better judge of what people think given votes are coming from people of all ages and even people who aren't necessarily Superman fans. But by all means discount it if it doesn't suit your agenda Guess you failed to realize the Hype was started as a tribute to COMIC BOOKS and movies based on them. Most of the world doesnt give a shit about comic books or the characters before they go mainstream in other media. The hype sure isn't an example of the rest of the world because theirs past time is a joke to most people. Most of us here actually prefer a good story and quality filmmaking so the fanboy jab doesn't apply like a good chunk of the Hype fanboys who are satisfied with CGI, dark and gritty visuals, and people punching each other. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 16:55:42 GMT -5
My apologies, but you'd vote for Routh over Cavill anyway so the point still stands Remember when Routh lifted the continent so parts collapsed crushing and killing Luthor's henchmen? I remember MOS Superman saving the planet, apparently he was supposed to abandon that idea to save them all one at a time. Dont give up your day job as Marvel's PR man He fought Zod AFTER the world engine was stopped. World wasn't in immediate danger anymore. Didn't both Supermen save the world? Luthors henchman were too stupid to get off the island even though they had the means. Rouths Superman didn't leave them stranded there. Snyderman letting thousands die in the destruction of a metropolis without doing more to stop it was much worse. Don't give up your day job as Cavills PR man. They need you a lot more since MOS couldn't get the job done on its own. Marvel doesn't need me. They're kicking MOS and WBS asses just fine on their own. Surely you can go and have a wank to Marvel's films and spend less time complaining about Snyder then, while you're at it give us your detailed reveiew of Pacific Rim and tell us how Del Toro is a diddy because of the lack of depth and poor acting I'm not even going to waste my time debunking your myths anymore 'tallo. Zod said he'd kill everyone, Superman stopped him, end of story. Ofcourse Marvel doesn't need you, nobody does, but you can see why it would be easy to confuse you for a Marvel plant. Good on Marvel I say, the more good comic book movies the better. But I'm not about to sit with one hand working my cock because they're films are doing better than your nemisis Zack Snyder's film Ciao |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 16:58:30 GMT -5
I'm well aware of the huge love for Nolan's Batman, I've never tried to deny it, I myself loved the first one. The hypes full of a bunch of fanboys? the irony It wasn't started up as a tribute to Donner's Superman films so I'd say it's far better judge of what people think given votes are coming from people of all ages and even people who aren't necessarily Superman fans. But by all means discount it if it doesn't suit your agenda Guess you failed to realize the Hype was started as a tribute to COMIC BOOKS and movies based on them. Most of the world doesnt give a shit about comic books or the characters before they go mainstream in other media. The hype sure isn't an example of the rest of the world because theirs past time is a joke to most people. Most of us here actually prefer a good story and quality filmmaking so the fanboy jab doesn't apply like a good chunk of the Hype fanboys who are satisfied with CGI, dark and gritty visuals, and people punching each other. you're as much a fanboy as anyone. That's why I was laughing. What's a better judge? A much smaller community dedicated to one rendition of Superman, or a large community dedicated to comic books as a whole? I think you know. Manipulate my words, twist and turn as much as you like, deep down you know when you're talking BS. Anyways I've got stuff to do, so carry on |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 17:08:33 GMT -5
He fought Zod AFTER the world engine was stopped. World wasn't in immediate danger anymore. Didn't both Supermen save the world? Luthors henchman were too stupid to get off the island even though they had the means. Rouths Superman didn't leave them stranded there. Snyderman letting thousands die in the destruction of a metropolis without doing more to stop it was much worse. Don't give up your day job as Cavills PR man. They need you a lot more since MOS couldn't get the job done on its own. Marvel doesn't need me. They're kicking MOS and WBS asses just fine on their own. Surely you can go and have a wank to Marvel's films and spend less time complaining about Snyder then, while you're at it give us your detailed reveiew of Pacific Rim and tell us how Del Toro is a diddy because of the lack of depth and poor acting I'm not even going to waste my time debunking your myths anymore 'tallo. Zod said he'd kill everyone, Superman stopped him, end of story. Ofcourse Marvel doesn't need you, nobody does, but you can see why it would be easy to confuse you for a Marvel plant. Good on Marvel I say, the more good comic book movies the better. But I'm not about to sit with one hand working my cock because they're films are doing better than your nemisis Zack Snyder's film Ciao And yet Clark is responsible for bringing Zod to Earth in the first place and felt not one iota of responsibly. Just because Zod said he was going to kill everyone means Superman with his SUPERSPEED couldn't save some of the people probably getting crushed to death in the destruction? Snyderman didn't even care. And after he killed Zod I didn't see him rushing into the rubble to dig people out. Which would be easier with his X-ray vision. even before that he was happy go lucky sucking face with Lois. Didn't seem to concerned with Zod OR the destruction around them. Not myths. Sorry if you're gonna whine over it. If by wank you mean sit down and watch Marvels superior product instead of the soulless pitiful product that is MOS then yeah I will. So is the rest of the world apparently. Snyderman needs Batman to sucker people into seeing another sequel. Have a taste of that sucker punch. For all your butthurt joking about guys like Del Toro they don't bother with lazy cash grab decisions like that. I give those guys credit because they are better filmmakers than fratboy Snyder and didn't fail upwards after three bombs. They earned their spots. Maybe Snyders lucky enough to be some coke addled execs kept man. Maybe if he pulled his video game controller out if his ass long enough he might learn how to make a better movie. Not my fault that MOS was a mediocre movie most people stopped caring about once WWZ came out. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 5, 2013 17:13:54 GMT -5
Wondering in general, not to anyone in particular--- and not trying to stir things up- Would it be easier to just officially split the forum into sections? * Those who love/prefer the Donner version? * Those who love/prefer the MOS version?  |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 17:15:37 GMT -5
Guess you failed to realize the Hype was started as a tribute to COMIC BOOKS and movies based on them. Most of the world doesnt give a shit about comic books or the characters before they go mainstream in other media. The hype sure isn't an example of the rest of the world because theirs past time is a joke to most people. Most of us here actually prefer a good story and quality filmmaking so the fanboy jab doesn't apply like a good chunk of the Hype fanboys who are satisfied with CGI, dark and gritty visuals, and people punching each other. you're as much a fanboy as anyone. That's why I was laughing. What's a better judge? A much smaller community dedicated to one rendition of Superman, or a large community dedicated to comic books as a whole? I think you know. Manipulate my words, twist and turn as much as you like, deep down you know when you're talking BS. Anyways I've got stuff to do, so carry on A larger community of even BIGGER less concerned for quality NERDS? LOL! Really, Kris. Those two things cancel each other out. It ain't the real world. If I'm a fanboy I guess I aint as bad as some. Expensive (yet plastic looking) special effects and Snyder's big muscular man fetish aint enough to impress me when it comes to movies. Sorry, Kristy. . I'm not a Hypster that jerks off to how big Cavills pecs look in his rubber onesie because I slavishly want it to look just like a drawing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 17:22:19 GMT -5
Feel the rage I believe those are what you would call excuses. I'm so glad Superman will be back on the big screen soon  |
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