Superman/Batman/DC art photos and videos (fan and official)

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 2, 2016 14:32:52 GMT -5 Metallo said:

It really depends on how it was handled and built to. It wouldn't be easy. It would take years and a slow progression of films opening up the world and introducing new ideas to acclimate the audience to the very idea of something like that. Then they'd have to do he actual work on the films to make them good and get to that point. It's possible but not very likely and very difficult.

But then again 20 years ago MOST people would have said ideas like Civil War and the Infinity Saga would be absolutely impossible and would never work as films. Just the logistics of it and juggling that many characters. The very idea of a team of heroes fighting another team of heroes would have been too far out there for most people to take seriously.

Now we are at a point where it not only worked but where we know something like X-men vs Avengers would at least be doable if difficult. Depending on what Infinity War is and how far it goes some version of Crisis could look very possible. I'd put good money down betting that the MCU will see some serious and surprising things going on after Infinity War.

Right- it is all in the execution.... but I think even Avengers is a minor miracle- but that really took getting general audiences invested in each Marvel movie as it went along (or at least enough of the audience) plus the speed at which Marvel had those movies come out.

As an example, if there were a 'crisis' with parallel universes even with the strong Marvel brand now--- with - let's say: 3 actors playing different version Hulks (Norton, Bana, Ruffalo)- the script would have to be pretty amazing to buy into all the versions and care about all the versions.

If it's the same actor with parallel universes- like in Back to the Future 2, with different Marty McFlys but the same Michael J. Fox- I could see it being easier.... but it may be a perceived block that I personally have- even when it's different actors in the same movie playing older and younger versions (though, oddly, I was fine and actually thrilled when they had Mcavoy/ Stewart and Fassbender/ Gandalf playing the same roles in DOFP).... anyhow, if one group movie requires enough screen time with each character to care about each character, I imagine a parallel universe one would require even more to be pulled off well.

Not impossible, but just hard for me to envision getting made- the exception being something where there might be a pre-existing tv show or such to go back to.

But even then- the tones of the Burton/Keaton Batman and the Bale Batman are so different, it's already a bit jarring to see them even in a trailer. When the actors/characters come from about the same time frame, it's not nearly as jarring in these fan edits (i.e. Reeve Superman and Lynda Carter Wonder Woman or Bixby's Hulk)

[Metallo]

Yeah. And with that minor miracle out of the way I think it open the doors up for people to accept things they may not have before. As for overcoming tonal differences I agree that's difficult but it's not like the Burton Nolan and Snyder batmen are that far apart. They are all appropriately dark. Some are just more gothic than others and some are more realistic while others are more stylized. It's not as wide a gulf as say...between Batman 66 and Nolans Dark Knight. The idea I'm talking about would be years away though. Marvel couldn't really do a Crisis style story like this since there aren't enough varying versions of the characters (certainly not good ones). Norton and Rufallo are playing the same version of Bruce Banner. But they are going to be playing with the idea of other universes and other dimensions and other realities with Doctor Strange. If that works it will get people even more used to the idea.

Of course the real problem is this is WB we're talking about. It could be done but WB can fi<k up a sure thing so there's no way they could do something like this.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 2, 2016 22:08:45 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah. And with that minor miracle out of the way I think it open the doors up for people to accept things they may not have before. As for overcoming tonal differences I agree that's difficult but it's not like the Burton Nolan and Snyder batmen are that far apart. They are all appropriately dark. Some are just more gothic than others and some are more realistic while others are more stylized. It's not as wide a gulf as say...between Batman 66 and Nolans Dark Knight. The idea I'm talking about would be years away though. Marvel couldn't really do a Crisis style story like this since there aren't enough varying versions of the characters (certainly not good ones). Norton and Rufallo are playing the same version of Bruce Banner. But they are going to be playing with the idea of other universes and other dimensions and other realities with Doctor Strange. If that works it will get people even more used to the idea.

Of course the real problem is this is WB we're talking about. It could be done but WB can fi<k up a sure thing so there's no way they could do something like this.

I give them credit for stepping aside and letting Singer do SR his way, and Nolan do Batman Begins/Dark Knight free of (it seems) interference.

The problem was that this extended to TDKR and MOS....

[Metallo]

That's a good point. I also respect WB for letting those two have freedom but like you said they ended up going too far as well. There has to be a balance. Sometimes someone has to play devils advocate. Singer needed someone to challenge some of his ideas on SR. Nolan needed the same. TDKR was excessive whereas Batman Begins benefited from some of its limitations.

On the other end of the spectrum WB was too controlling with Green Lantern and Jonah Hex. Then they let Snyder have too much control on MOS and BVS. Everyone needs to be on the same page from the start but the people at the top also need to do it right. I think that's the good think about Kevin Feige. He's not just some ignorant number crunching formula following uninterested executive. He does understand the Marvel characters and he does want to see them treated respectfully and faithfully. He's not an Avi Arad type just interested in selling toys. Feiges choices on Antman are debatable but there's no doubt he did what he did because he believed it was in the characters best interests. It looks like his opinions on Punisher Warzone and Amazing Soider-man 2 were right on the money.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 6, 2016 11:13:15 GMT -5 Metallo said:

That's a good point. I also respect WB for letting those two have freedom but like you said they ended up going too far as well. There has to be a balance. Sometimes someone has to play devils advocate. Singer needed someone to challenge some of his ideas on SR. Nolan needed the same. TDKR was excessive whereas Batman Begins benefited from some of its limitations.

On the other end of the spectrum WB was too controlling with Green Lantern and Jonah Hex. Then they let Snyder have too much control on MOS and BVS. Everyone needs to be on the same page from the start but the people at the top also need to do it right. I think that's the good think about Kevin Feige. He's not just some ignorant number crunching formula following uninterested executive. He does understand the Marvel characters and he does want to see them treated respectfully and faithfully. He's not an Avi Arad type just interested in selling toys. Feiges choices on Antman are debatable but there's no doubt he did what he did because he believed it was in the characters best interests. It looks like his opinions on Punisher Warzone and Amazing Soider-man 2 were right on the money.

I thought Geoff Johns was going to be Feige, but it's hard to tell if Nolan was handed it, but he chose to be 'hands off' for that position..... or if Snyder has that position, or if NOBODY gets that position.

In any case--- everybody at Marvel Studios credits Feige (for the most part), so there seems to be overwhelming evidence that he's the reason that Marvel hasn't strayed too far from the comics-

Having said that..... I'm curious if there really is an ongoing negotiation with Shuler-Donner and Feige to get X-men co-produced next by Marvel Studios. There's been some talk about including some easter eggs to make the universe seem inclusive across studios...

(After seeing the deleted scenes to X:Apocalypse, more of my faith is restored with Singer as director, but I wonder if Feige took over, if he'd want to continue or just reboot from scratch with the X-men)

[Metallo]

If they got the full rights they'd reboot but unlike Sony Fox has a much better bargaining posture. Fox may want to keep some of the old continuity instead of rebooting. Personally I think the FoX-Men continuity is so screwed up they need to do some sort of quasi reboot.

I'm planning on rewatching X-Men Apocalypse soon since I just bought it and if the movies had continued with that I'd be fine with Singers new X-Men crossing over into the MCU but it looks like the (old man) Logan movie is going to complicate the continuity even more. The rumored date it's future is set in don't line up with the new/reset 2023 epilogue in DOFP at all. I LIKED Singers new team of young actors but it looks like Fox doesn't have a clue. And Deadpool complicates things even more. I think with Doctor Strange blatantly pushing the Multiverse concept so hard in marketing it's only a matter of time before Disney/Marvel and Fox reach some kind of deal to team up and work together.

Kate Beckinsale also dropped news that Marvel plans to do something with Blade so there's that.

[Metallo]

I think Kevin Feige is definitely the driving force behind Marvel Studios success. He's been working with Marvel before they established their own studio and out of all those executives working behind the scenes on movies he's the one that's currently the most successful. Avi Arad has fallen by the wayside and Lauren Schuler Donners record is spotty.

I think Nolan had the filmmaker and storyteller ability to be a sort of godfather to a DC movie universe but I don't think he ever wanted to. He's got his own things he wants to do and I don't think he wants to be tied down being so heavily involved in the whole slate of DC movies I also don't think he has the knowledge of the comic books that someone in that position might need.

Geoff Johns has the comic book knowledge that these kinds of films need but I'm not sure if he has enough experience as a film executive to make the kind of right decisions in a role like that.

Jeph Loeb could have been DCs answer to Kevin Fiege. We know he knows the comic books since he's written some of the best Batman and Superman stories ever and I'm pretty sure that he was working in film and television long before he was working in comic books. Problem is marvel snapped up Loeb first.

If man of steel had been a tremendous success on all fronts Snyder and Goyer would be running the DCEU but Goyer was the fall guy first and now with Batman V Superman failing Snyders been demoted. Goyers creative vision was also too limited. He proved he had no real vision of his own and was just coasting on Nolans.

It looks like right now two or three people are filling the Kevin Feige position for DC entertainment and Warner Bros.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 10, 2016 17:59:40 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I think Kevin Feige is definitely the driving force behind Marvel Studios success. He's been working with Marvel before they established their own studio and out of all those executives working behind the scenes on movies he's the one that's currently the most successful. Avi Arad has fallen by the wayside and Lauren Schuler Donners record is spotty.

I think Nolan had the filmmaker and storyteller ability to be a sort of godfather to a DC movie universe but I don't think he ever wanted to. He's got his own things he wants to do and I don't think he wants to be tied down being so heavily involved in the whole slate of DC movies I also don't think he has the knowledge of the comic books that someone in that position might need.

Geoff Johns has the comic book knowledge that these kinds of films need but I'm not sure if he has enough experience as a film executive to make the kind of right decisions in a role like that.

Jeph Loeb could have been DCs answer to Kevin Fiege. We know he knows the comic books since he's written some of the best Batman and Superman stories ever and I'm pretty sure that he was working in film and television long before he was working in comic books. Problem is marvel snapped up Loeb first.

If man of steel had been a tremendous success on all fronts Snyder and Goyer would be running the DCEU but Goyer was the fall guy first and now with Batman V Superman failing Snyders been demoted. Goyers creative vision was also too limited. He proved he had no real vision of his own and was just coasting on Nolans.

It looks like right now two or three people are filling the Kevin Feige position for DC entertainment and Warner Bros.

Yeah... I do give Nolan tons of credit for BB and TDK- but he's not a fanboy in the same way that Singer is (though even Singer takes/took a few liberties too many that I wasn't crazy about). But I do think from the interviews with both filmmakers, Singer would have been way more excited with that position, if it had been offered to him.

Jeph Loeb it looks like is Marvel TV's Kevin Feige. I do wonder now, though, if Feige officially was told he was 'free' to not have to worry about continuity with the tv branch.

In any case---

I think you're totally right about how much Deadpool's success (as well as Wolverine "Logan") is making decisions harder for Fox. I really wish Singer had included the deleted scenes into the film- I do think it would have improved the box office significantly.

I have strong doubts that the 90's X-men film pitched by Singer/Kinsberg will happen with the new cast- it's too bad.

If X-men does go to Marvel Studios--- I have a mixed response. It's too soon in a way even if it's well done for a reboot- If they do, I'd much rather they do the Netflix tv shows, but I know with the box office potential, they'd never go for it.

On the other hand, if Feige really does respect what Singer's done---- how to compete and make it THAT much different? Singer already talked about being excited to let someone else direct the next one, then do the Phoenix story with the Shiar Empire and such in outer space (which would be awesome).... but, will see.

Getting a sad feeling that it's the end of the Singer X-men - much like I felt when SR 2 seemed unlikely.

[Metallo]

Yeah I do think it might be over for singers X-Men. The movie did well enough that there could be another one but the problem is it made less money than the previous films. As you said the success of Deadpool as well as other Marvel movies has changed everything.

It's not so much that Feige is "free" not to worry about tv continuity since the tv side has always had to work their TV shows around what the movies were doing instead of it being the other way around or them working in concert. What Feige was told he was free of is working with Ike Perlmutter on coordinating certain things to do like using the in humans in movies. Now Feige gets to make those choices himself. He doesn't answer or work with Perlmutter he answers directly to the head of the studio.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 10, 2016 22:34:31 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah I do think it might be over for singers X-Men. The movie did well enough that there could be another one but the problem is it made less money than the previous films. As you said the success of Deadpool as well as other Marvel movies has changed everything.

It's not so much that Feige is "free" not to worry about tv continuity since the tv side has always had to work their TV shows around what the movies were doing instead of it being the other way around or them working in concert. What Feige was told he was free of is working with Ike Perlmutter on coordinating certain things to do like using the in humans in movies. Now Feige gets to make those choices himself. He doesn't answer or work with Perlmutter he answers directly to the head of the studio.

If the bar for superhero box office grosses were lower, maybe there could (maybe) be another chance for a cheaper X-men film- much like how they kept doing Star Trek films for the longest time, even if the ceiling for what it made domestically was fairly modest.

But- now with every superhero film needing (more or less) to make as much as a Marvel entry I think makes it somewhat impossible.

If WB was borderline for SR 2 way back when, nowadays I'd assume there'd be even less forgiveness now for a box office disappointment.

Anyhow..... I hope it's not a case where the X-men (not spinoffs) get put into limbo for a decade again. Deadpool (To me) wasn't THAT great.

Still- I guess one should feel lucky to get 5 really good X-men films out of 6. That's not a bad record at all, I just feel that there could have been SO many more great stories to tell....

[Metallo]

It's funny. if you don't adjust for inflation X-Men Apocalypse made less domestically in the original X-Men movie did in 2000. You make a good point about the budgets of the original Star Trek movies The budgets were kept in check so the movies could make profits. A movie like Star Trek beyond had such a massive budget it was difficult for it to be a success.

I think a certain X-Men spinoffs like X-force and Cable will be OK because of their connection to Deadpool and Rob Liefeld. Fox will give them the support they need but as for other X-Men movies it's up in the air right now

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 11, 2016 9:19:58 GMT -5 Metallo said:

It's funny. if you don't adjust for inflation X-Men Apocalypse made less domestically in the original X-Men movie did in 2000. You make a good point about the budgets of the original Star Trek movies The budgets were kept in check so the movies could make profits. A movie like Star Trek beyond had such a massive budget it was difficult for it to be a success.

I think a certain X-Men spinoffs like X-force and Cable will be OK because of their connection to Deadpool and Rob Liefeld. Fox will give them the support they need but as for other X-Men movies it's up in the air right now

The problem with Apocalypse I think at the core was that Singer kept everything for the villain story to make sense, but extracted wayyy too much of the character stuff and film time with the new characters for us to care enough about the heroes. It was shot, but not included. The original X-men movie had more of a real connection with the main two characters in Wolverine and Rogue, than the new movie has with its characters in theatrical form.

[Metallo]

True. I didn't feel the connection with the new actors and characters that I felt with the past casts. Nightcrawler, Storm, Cyclops, Angel, Psylocke and others weren't fleshed out enough. Mystique was overexposed. Xavier and Magnetos roles were better written in the previous two films.

The whole thing felt very "been there, done that" like there was nothing new to get people excited. Worst of all the scope and scale of the film and its story felt smaller than the excellent DOFP which is arguably the best film in the entire franchise. "Apocalypse" felt like a step backwards. Films like these, the end of a trilogy, should escalate and feel like it's building to something. DOFP felt like a bigger film so I think some people felt this new one wasn't worth as much effort to get out and go see.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 11, 2016 14:29:26 GMT -5 Metallo said:

True. I didn't feel the connection with the new actors and characters that I felt with the past casts. Nightcrawler, Storm, Cyclops, Angel, Psylocke and others weren't fleshed out enough. Mystique was overexposed. Xavier and Magnetos roles were better written in the previous two films.

The whole thing felt very "been there, done that" like there was nothing new to get people excited. Worst of all the scope and scale of the film and its story felt smaller than the excellent DOFP which is arguably the best film in the entire franchise. "Apocalypse" felt like a step backwards. Films like these, the end of a trilogy, should escalate and feel like it's building to something. DOFP felt like a bigger film so I think some people felt this new one wasn't worth as much effort to get out and go see.

The thing is: there's no big payoff in the final act.
In the first two acts, a lot happens- (although a little too fast in terms of giving us enough connection time with the new mutants)-

But in the last twenty minutes- we have characters we barely know fighting other characters we don't have much of a connection with.

It's really sad/bizzare that Singer and Kinsberg thought that they were upping the scale- when they didn't realize that seeing cgi disaster movies like "2012" and "San Andreas" (and a dozen other cgi disaster sequences) make one numb and somewhat disinterested.

If they had cut away to people that the characters were attached to in those 'cutaways' (i.e. Storm's orphan friends that get wiped out without mention in Cairo, or maybe Scott Summers' parents in the suburbs)- it might have had some more impact. Or, if there were survivors in Cairo that the X-men helped, it would have made the scenario feel more 'grounded' and real rather than a 'formula sequence'.

Strangely, I felt somewhat the same with the New York/Statue of Liberty cutaways in the first X-men. It wasn't badly done..... but I kind of felt the same detachment with the last act of Apocalypse and 'it's just a cgi sequence of extras that are pretending there's a disaster' feeling.

[Metallo]

Oh yeah. You're right. We've seen that kind of city destruction dozens of times in recent years. Like you said before Magneto is allowed to go free after potentially killing thousands or tens of
Thousands of people. It's the same problems Snyders movies have: characters aren't held responsible or accountable. Age of Ultron suffered the same problem but that was at least seriously adressed in Civil War.

Check this out. I think Screen Junkies did a good job pointing out the problems.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 12, 2016 19:40:35 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Oh yeah. You're right. We've seen that kind of city destruction dozens of times in recent years. Like you said before Magneto is allowed to go free after potentially killing thousands or tens of
Thousands of people. It's the same problems Snyders movies have: characters aren't held responsible or accountable. Age of Ultron suffered the same problem but that was at least seriously adressed in Civil War.

Check this out. I think Screen Junkies did a good job pointing out the problems.

Besides Magneto being allowed to go free- it's how Magneto navigates so easily in two dimensions of being family man, Xavier's friend, and destroying innocents in cities. It could have been a little more complex this last go-round, but wasn't.

Xavier could have gotten in his face and said that there were families he was destroying just like his. Magneto could have had a response to this rather than the over-simplistic "there is good in you" and reaction shots. Otherwise, emotionally, it WAS going back to a retread of DOFP.

[Metallo]

Yeah I wish they'd done all that. Just shows the script needed work. Do you think rushing a sequel out in two years instead of three as usual hurt the quality. Lots of examples of the shortener two year window affecting script quality.

Also is there any news on an extended cut?

[Metallo]

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 13, 2016 17:31:42 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah I wish they'd done all that. Just shows the script needed work. Do you think rushing a sequel out in two years instead of three as usual hurt the quality. Lots of examples of the shortener two year window affecting script quality.

Also is there any news on an extended cut?

Singer's apparently not in favor of extended cuts- too bad. This one REALLY needed it far more than the Rogue cut, which was nice to see, but had things that took away as much as it added in the Rogue cut.

As for Apocalypse-


It's totally possible that the script needed more time.... but to be honest, I really don't think it would have required much more than a few lines here and there to fix it in the way I wanted it fixed. Or a 2-3 minute scene with Xavier confronting Magneto at the end on it.

On the flip side for a 'rushed' project- now that I see the multiple bits that were intended, I don't hate it nearly as much and that things WERE mostly in place that I wanted (if taking the deleted bits into account for the whole experience) for the 'first' X-men movie.

In any case- as you said= I have a bad feeling it's either 'limbo' time again for the Singer influenced X-men.... or the end with a reboot by Marvel.... eventually. (I notice that there's been no news on "heckfire" - the Singer/Manny Coto X-men series for awhile- maybe dead because of the low box office for Apocalypse?)

[Metallo]

He||fire has been cancelled. I'm kind of glad since I feel they could do so much more with that project. I liked the first class take on the group but a classic comic book He||fire club would be amazing. The movies changed things so much that we didn't get that but it sounds like Singers original ideas for X-men 3 were much closer to the comic book He||fire club.

They are going ahead with another mutant series called Legion, which is about Xavier's illegitimate son David from the comics. I'm not sure if they'll directly address his ties and relashionship to the Professor but but it will only be tangentially connected to the overall X-men screen franchise.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 14, 2016 10:54:45 GMT -5 Metallo said:

He||fire has been cancelled. I'm kind of glad since I feel they could do so much more with that project. I liked the first class take on the group but a classic comic book He||fire club would be amazing. The movies changed things so much that we didn't get that but it sounds like Singers original ideas for X-men 3 were much closer to the comic book He||fire club.

They are going ahead with another mutant series called Legion, which is about Xavier's illegitimate son David from the comics. I'm not sure if they'll directly address his ties and relashionship to the Professor but but it will only be tangentially connected to the overall X-men screen franchise.

I loved the idea of Manny Coto working on an X-men property (big fan of his since his work on Enterprise and '24'), but never was in love with the idea of the focus being on the heckfire Club.

The buzz on Legion sounds good, but it sounds so tangental, that I don't know if there's really any purpose to connecting it to the X-men at this point.

[Metallo]

I'd go everything or nothing on Legion. If they don't connect it then don't even mention the word mutant.

Enterprise season 4 was one of the best turn arounds I've ever seen a show do. Was actually dissapointed to see if cancelled. It's what they show should have been in the first place. Agents of shield is currently in a similar situation creativly speaking.

[Metallo]

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 19, 2016 18:22:07 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I'd go everything or nothing on Legion. If they don't connect it then don't even mention the word mutant.

Enterprise season 4 was one of the best turn arounds I've ever seen a show do. Was actually dissapointed to see if cancelled. It's what they show should have been in the first place. Agents of shield is currently in a similar situation creativly speaking.

Most of Enterprise season 3 is pretty good, too--- again, I notice it happened mostly with Manny Coto in charge. Such a pity that they didn't get one more season. They were really on a roll....

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 19, 2016 18:23:25 GMT -5 Metallo said: