The SMALLVILLE Thread

[crazy_asian_man]

In most episodes of that last season, there would be about ten minutes where they'd nail something, and then it would be more...
"I guess I'm just not the hero everyone thinks I am"

"But Clark, you need to become who you're supposed to be."

"Then why don't I hear that from Jor-El?"

Until I'm like: SHUT THE FUCK UP! ALL OF YOU!!!!! I was rooting for Darkseid by the end of it all.

Also, hearing "The Blur" repeated about forty times an episode made me awfully stabby. Horrible, stupid nickname.

I hear you, I think I'm talking relative to the earlier seasons where the Lana/Clark thing was driving me crazy + EXTREMELY repetitive storylines that this feels like a much different show, and better.

"The Blur" is a cringe-worthy name, I agree with you there. The less they mentioned the name, would have been better. I get why they were aiming for the LAST episodes to be the ones where Clark reclaims his relationships with both dads, to be the 'jumping point' to where he 'becomes the man he needs to be'--- but the execution I also agree coulda/shoulda been better.

Still--- compared to other 'superhero tv shows', (The Incredible Hulk, Spiderman, Flash, Superboy, Lois & Clark, original Superman tv show Batman)--- this went the furthest so far, I think, in terms of showing the masses what could be done with a superhero tv show--- the introduction of other DC comics elements was a big treat, as we're probably never going to see any bigscreen versions of them anytime, soon, too.... (Well, not after Green Lantern)

[Valentine Smith]

Flash, Lois & Clark (Season One), and yes...even Superboy, I find more watchable than Smallville. All of those shows, for all of their flaws, at least knew what they were and weren't ashamed of it.

I'd have been able to forgive a lot more in Smallville had they actually shown him in the suit, or had they turned it into a proper Superman show without all of the Blur nonsense. It was the endless teasing that "something big" was going to happen (which never did), and the apparent self-loathing of the character's comic book roots which I just can't get my head around.

If you don't want to make a Superman show, don't make a Superman show. But don't make a Superman show, and then not make it a Superman show, and tease/insult fans of the character with promises and no payoffs.

I was genuinely looking forward to seeing Welling in the suit. I think he would have worn it well. Those teases of life at The Daily Planet when things were "as they should be" really were a nice taste of what they were capable of, but to not even give the fans that real payoff...was dick. I got chills when I watched it the first time, mostly because of the music, but in retrospect, I just got annoyed.

I'm generally sick of existential moaning in our culture, and it's especially ill-suited to Superman. It's the kind of thing that can sustain a character in his teens and early 20s, because, hey...we're all guilty of that. But ten years of it? I have friends like that. I hide them on Facebook.

[crazy_asian_man]

Flash, Lois & Clark (Season One), and yes...even Superboy, I find more watchable than Smallville. All of those shows, for all of their flaws, at least knew what they were and weren't ashamed of it.

I'd have been able to forgive a lot more in Smallville had they actually shown him in the suit, or had they turned it into a proper Superman show without all of the Blur nonsense. It was the endless teasing that "something big" was going to happen (which never did), and the apparent self-loathing of the character's comic book roots which I just can't get my head around.

If you don't want to make a Superman show, don't make a Superman show. But don't make a Superman show, and then not make it a Superman show, and tease/insult fans of the character with promises and no payoffs.

I was genuinely looking forward to seeing Welling in the suit. I think he would have worn it well. Those teases of life at The Daily Planet when things were "as they should be" really were a nice taste of what they were capable of, but to not even give the fans that real payoff...was dick. I got chills when I watched it the first time, mostly because of the music, but in retrospect, I just got annoyed.

I'm generally sick of existential moaning in our culture, and it's especially ill-suited to Superman. It's the kind of thing that can sustain a character in his teens and early 20s, because, hey...we're all guilty of that. But ten years of it? I have friends like that. I hide them on Facebook.

I agree with most of what you're saying--- I'm pretty sure I mentioned my sheer loathing and disdain of Gough and Millar when I saw them onstage saying that they didn't feel a need (When they were in charge) of answering to all the inconsistencies between what they were doing on the show- to end up where Superman ends/appears in the comics/movies. (ie the glasses)

From that point on, I felt that: geez, ok- it's either 'alternative universe' or 'nothing' with these guys... they have NO intent of trying to bridge the gap by the end.

With the showrunners of the last season, they actually DID try to bridge gaps--- So, I credit them for that, and with seeing how the finale was shot--- I really do think it was more Welling than the writers that didn't allow for him to be in the full suit and visible.

The story SEEMS to be about his reveal in full suit, but it looks like a way that was shot so that Welling didn't know what they were ultimately going to do. (Or maybe contractually they couldn't --- truly bizzare)

Anyhow, yeah, I hear and agree with most of what you're saying--- I'm just saying that it steered closer by the last season to what I wanted to see (overall) and the thing lasted longer than any of the other comic book series--- which COULD be a plus -or a minus- with how future comic book properties get put on the small screen.

For sure, the powers that be have to know the huge profits that can be made on a superhero series with Smallville's success... (perhaps Smallvilles' success alread lled to "The Cape", "No Ordinary Family", and "Alphas" getting greenlit).

Will be curious to see what comes next on the smallscreen with superheroes....

[crazy_asian_man]

Jump-skipped forward to Season 8 on the dvd set.... also suprisingly pretty good so far---

An infuriating commentary, though, on "Legion" episode:
Two bits that drove me crazy---

#1: Apparently in outline form, there was going to be an EPILOGUE where you SEE the three Legionnaires with the other Legionnaires in the 31st century. Can you imagine? WOW. No idea that the world was SO close to actually seeing the whole legion in live action form, even if only for a few minutes.

#2: Geoff Johns talks about how he mentioned using the Legion for a script for Smallville--- and the producers had NO Freaking idea who the legion was.

hecko? You're doing a tv show about Superboy (essentially) and you have NO idea who the legion is?

Apparently the producers don't believe in researching the characters at all. Professional tv producers.... right. PFFT!

[cypher85]

Well, if your dealing with post-crisis supes, which is all producers really had to do if they truly wanted to do their research, then they wouldn't need to know anything about the legion.

[crazy_asian_man]

Well, if your dealing with post-crisis supes, which is all producers really had to do if they truly wanted to do their research, then they wouldn't need to know anything about the legion.

They're doing an alternative version, so in theory, they don't even need to follow any rules or read ANY comics, true. They could just make it up out of their backsides.

I think it's because I know relatives who are journalists and the level of minimal research that they feel is required for any story that they work on definitely is far beyond what these bozos did for Smallville.

Walk into a comic store. See what's on sale if you're doing a series on a comic book hero or check out his history, including past Superboy series. Post crisis in the first few issues of Superman has Legion involved as well. Lazy work on their part.

[ye5man]

the apparent self-loathing of the character's comic book roots

I didn't feel that. Interesting observation, can you elaborate a little?


Smallville was definitely a giant cock-tease. All foreshadowing and no payoff (unless you know of STM, comics, etc, all which came before it)

[crazy_asian_man]

the apparent self-loathing of the character's comic book roots

I didn't feel that. Interesting observation, can you elaborate a little?

I didn't make the comment, but I agree- up until season 8, I think, when Gough/Miller left. Then it loosened...a LITTLE. Still doesn't forgive the transparent lack of research that these folks did. The only costumed episodes are ones with Geoff Johns writing it.

Also I think the initial: "no tights (costumes)/no flights" ruling at the beginning didn't help--- for what reason? Had to be disdain for comics.
(Though, again, I give them some props for some costumes later on with the supporting characters- but the lack of a good shot of Welling in the costume at the end I still think is unforgiveable.)

You're totally right about the tease. Although I say that I really enjoy the episodes I'm watching right now..... it is with the caveat that I KNOW none of it will pay off at the season finale. Having low expectations and setting the bar lower definitely helps to enjoy the dvd.

[cypher85]

Walk into a comic store. See what's on sale if you're doing a series on a comic book hero or check out his history, including past Superboy series.

To be fair, historically, the legion's origin is dependent on Superboy. Not the other way around. That's like saying that the writers need to know every character that superboy ever interacted with. You don't need to know anything about the legion to understand who superboy is or anything about him, post crisis or pre crisis.

Post crisis in the first few issues of Superman has Legion involved as well.

Only to try and wrap up continuity problems with the legion, post crisis, again...the legion had nothing to do with superboy/superman's origins.

[Metallo]

Feb 6, 2012 11:36:48 GMT -5 ye5man said:

the apparent self-loathing of the character's comic book roots

I didn't feel that. Interesting observation, can you elaborate a little?


Smallville was definitely a giant cock-tease. All foreshadowing and no payoff (unless you know of STM, comics, etc, all which came before it)

Before it was over the various comic book and other media references were all the show used to get people excited instead of anything creative. Seemed lazy like cheap attention grabs.

They overdid all the appearances by other heroes to the point that it wasn't even special anymore.

[crazy_asian_man]

To be fair, historically, the legion's origin is dependent on Superboy. Not the other way around. That's like saying that the writers need to know every character that superboy ever interacted with. You don't need to know anything about the legion to understand who superboy is or anything about him, post crisis or pre crisis.

Smallville IS 'Superboy', isn't it?

Lazy research. That's all I'm saying. The legion is the biggest seller for the archive section of DC comics' connected to Superman/Superboy... so I'm NOT saying that they need to know every character ever in DC existence who crossed paths with Superman.

Anyhow, everyone's work ethic is different. I just think theirs wasn't very strong.

[cypher85]

when Johns first approached the producers and mentioned using the legion, why should they have already known about the legion at that point. I'm not trying to defend smallville's writers, as though show had atrocious writing. But, why should they have prior knowledge of characters who aren't integral to superboy's origin's. That's like saying that the producers should be scoffed at and called lazy if they don't know who Kitty Faulkner is. In the end the legionnaires are insignificant side plot characters for superboy, and in no way are writers of a tv show any more lazy for not knowing about them then any other random character that ever was introduced in the comics.

[Metallo]

I dunno but with the way the producers gushed about and embraced DC comics in general you'd think they at least had a PASSING knowledge of the Legion of Superheroes. I mean...is Green Arrow integral to Superman's origin? They dealt with various characters just as far or farther outside of Superman's sphere of influence.

If their fawning over using DC characters was just a facade of BS then I can understand that. That explains why so many of them ended up sucking Kryptocock.

[crazy_asian_man]

when Johns first approached the producers and mentioned using the legion, why should they have already known about the legion at that point. I'm not trying to defend smallville's writers, as though show had atrocious writing. But, why should they have prior knowledge of characters who aren't integral to superboy's origin's. That's like saying that the producers should be scoffed at and called lazy if they don't know who Kitty Faulkner is. In the end the legionnaires are insignificant side plot characters for superboy, and in no way are writers of a tv show any more lazy for not knowing about them then any other random character that ever was introduced in the comics.

How hard is it to take a trip to a comic shop and ask a few questions about Superboy's general history for ten minutes, plus its major players in his history?

Moot point, I suppose--- but, I was sharing a shock. Smallville isn't the first tv show to have producers that don't do much research on the topic they're writing about. But, it's harder to respect work when minimal effort is put in.


.

[cypher85]

plus its major players in his history?

Was the legion really a major player in post-crisis superman's history. I can complain about a shit ton of stuff about smallville, most of it actually. But, complaining that they didn't know who the legion is, that's pulling at straws a bit. Again, this is post crisis. Even if they read everything from byrne upwards (until johns retconned them back into supes history in 2008), they wouldn't know that the legion was anymore important to superman then magpie was.

[crazy_asian_man]

Was the legion really a major player in post-crisis superman's history. I can complain about a shit ton of stuff about smallville, most of it actually. But, complaining that they didn't know who the legion is, that's pulling at straws a bit. Again, this is post crisis. Even if they read everything from byrne upwards (until johns retconned them back into supes history in 2008), they wouldn't know that the legion was anymore important to superman then magpie was.

If your day job is writing about a tv show based on Superman's teen years, would you do the research and at least know (even vaguely) what the Legion is, or would you just dismiss that you don't have to know?

It's not what you HAVE to do- I'm talking about lazy research. That's it.

No, it's not pulling at straws. I'm putting myself in their shoes. Obviously, we're never going to agree on how much effort a writer should do here.

[Valentine Smith]

The Legion was an important part of Superman's history for longer than it wasn't. Even Byrne, in recent years, has said that if he could have done anything differently with his reboot, he would have found a way to keep Superboy, at least so they could keep the Legion elements.

Since the idea of Superboy is generally problematic, I've always been a fan of the compromise (which seems to be how things are post Infinite Crisis/Flashpoint) that Clark didn't have a proper costumed alter ego as a teenager, EXCEPT when he was in the future with The Legion, which is where he really learned how to hone his abilities. It helps explain why, when Superman properly emerges at age 25 or whatever, why he is SO damn good at saving lives and using his powers.

Same goes for Lex being from Smallville. That wasn't part of Post-Crisis Superman continuity, but clearly the showrunners had knowledge of that, so therefore they must have had knowledge of the Legion as well! Smallville never struck me as particularly "post-Crisis" but was rather an amalgamation of elements from the legend. That's why I was awfully forgiving of it early on. I had no problem with "no tights no flights" for say, the first five years, but after that, and especially once "The Blur" nonsense started happening, it got completely ridiculous. Once other costumed characters became regulars, there was no excuse for him not to have a Superman costume on.

[Metallo]

Feb 7, 2012 10:03:35 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

The Legion was an important part of Superman's history for longer than it wasn't. Even Byrne, in recent years, has said that if he could have done anything differently with his reboot, he would have found a way to keep Superboy, at least so they could keep the Legion elements.

Since the idea of Superboy is generally problematic, I've always been a fan of the compromise (which seems to be how things are post Infinite Crisis/Flashpoint) that Clark didn't have a proper costumed alter ego as a teenager, EXCEPT when he was in the future with The Legion, which is where he really learned how to hone his abilities. It helps explain why, when Superman properly emerges at age 25 or whatever, why he is SO damn good at saving lives and using his powers.

Same goes for Lex being from Smallville. That wasn't part of Post-Crisis Superman continuity, but clearly the showrunners had knowledge of that, so therefore they must have had knowledge of the Legion as well! Smallville never struck me as particularly "post-Crisis" but was rather an amalgamation of elements from the legend. That's why I was awfully forgiving of it early on. I had no problem with "no tights no flights" for say, the first five years, but after that, and especially once "The Blur" nonsense started happening, it got completely ridiculous. Once other costumed characters became regulars, there was no excuse for him not to have a Superman costume on.

Annnd Val sums up one the biggest problems with Smallville. Nobody around here ever seems to point that out while they gush over the show.

By the end of Smallville EVERYTHING had happened to Clark that should have happened to Superman EXCEPT putting on the suit. After he became Superman there was absolutely nothing to look forward to in our imaginations. He's not going to be doing anything special that he hasn't already done.

He'd met and fallen for Lois and he was working at the Daily Planet. He met Green Arrow, The Manhunter, etc. and worked with the Justice League. He fought Doomsday. He fought Darkseid. He fought Brainiac. Be fought Zod. He'd seen the Phantom Zone. He had a FOS. He's met his parents. he even met Supergirl! The show was ass back wards. A total decade long cock tease. Superman in EVERYTHING but name (and suit). It stopped being a show about his journey to becoming Superman years ago because he more or less WAS Superman before it was all over. He just wasn't so public about it. heck he even had a suit: That Matrix knockoff outfit and red leather get up (which looked like a Legion of Superheroes outfit!).

The only big reveal left to look forward to was putting him in the costume. They even botched that.

If they wanted to make the show about Superman fine. But they went on way too long pretending it was something it wasn't.

Once they started introducing more and more NON SUPERMAN comic book material to the show they should have taken it upon themselves to get more familiar with the larger DC comics history. Its stupid to basally do a DC team up show when you don't know a whole lot about DC. And trust me Smallville pretty much WAS The Brave and The Bold before it was all over.

I like Vals solution to the Clark/Legion issue. Even if Clark was never Superboy I've always loved the idea that he inspired a heroic age 1000 years from now. That means he's basically passed into MYTHIC status.

Superman TAS handled it pretty well. On the show Clark still did some super feats (as covertly as possible) and when the LOS traveled back in time they got to meet him. It was the perfect way to tie Clark to the Legion without the suit and get him in the LOS record books.

I can't remember what they did on the Superman and The LOS cartoon. Was Clark wearing the suit BEFORE the Legion took him to the future?

[Valentine Smith]

Y'know what? I don't remember. I've been meaning to revisit that cartoon. I liked the premise, didn't care for the first season, but thought it got much better later on!

[crazy_asian_man]

By the end of Smallville EVERYTHING had happened to Clark that should have happened to Superman EXCEPT putting on the suit. After he became Superman there was absolutely nothing to look forward to in our imaginations. He's not going to be doing anything special that he hasn't already done.

He'd met and fallen for Lois and he was working at the Daily Planet. He met Green Arrow, The Manhunter, etc. and worked with the Justice League. He fought Doomsday. He fought Darkseid. He fought Brainiac. Be fought Zod. He'd seen the Phantom Zone. He had a FOS. He's met his parents. he even met Supergirl! The show was ass back wards. A total decade long cock tease. Superman in EVERYTHING but name (and suit). It stopped being a show about his journey to becoming Superman years ago because he more or less WAS Superman before it was all over. He just wasn't so public about it. heck he even had a suit: That Matrix knockoff outfit and red leather get up (which looked like a Legion of Superheroes outfit!).

The only big reveal left to look forward to was putting him in the costume. They even botched that.

If they wanted to make the show about Superman fine. But they went on way too long pretending it was something it wasn't.

Once they started introducing more and more NON SUPERMAN comic book material to the show they should have taken it upon themselves to get more familiar with the larger DC comics history. Its stupid to basally do a DC team up show when you don't know a whole lot about DC. And trust me Smallville pretty much WAS The Brave and The Bold before it was all over.

One thing that I was hoping to find out through the commentaries, was just how much of what was bad about Smallville was due to DC restrictions (Steven DeSouza, one of the writers of one of the mid-seasons of Smallville had a radio interview where he talked about how DC nixed a lot of ideas he had in the bud--- down to lines mentioned, so it gave the clue that there definitely wasn't 'free reign' to do as they wished), WB restrictions, or contract restrictions with Welling (did he have a clause initially about no costume??? From looking at the last episode, I'm really starting to feel that may be the weight that dragged everything down)

Unfortunately, the commentaries don't go there. Would have been nice to know.

(Also, if it WAS only Welling's contract--- then it'd be easier to forgive a lot more. What if the writers and showrunners would have been fine with the costume later on? No info that I know of, just that the show definitely seemed to REALLY improve once Gough/Millar left).

[Deleted]

Superman and the Legion of Superheroes? Wha?

[cypher85]

Announcing Smallville Season 11



From DC's Source Blog




Smallville Fans Rejoice! New Comic Book Series, SMALLVILLE SEASON 11, to Pick Up Where Show Left Off

Fans of the smash-hit TV series Smallville haven’t had much to cheer about since the show ended its critically acclaimed 10-year run on The CW last May. That’s all going to change with the upcoming new comic book series from DC Entertainment: SMALLVILLE SEASON 11. Written by former Smallville show scribe Bryan Q. Miller, the new digital first series will be published digitally on April 13, 2012, with new digital chapters released weekly thereafter. Additionally, the online chapters will be offered in a print periodical, along with an episode guide to the hit television series, with the first print issue released on May 16.

The new comic book series picks-up where the show left off (with Clark officially now as Superman!) and features other fan-favorite characters including Oliver Queen/Green Arrow, Chloe Sullivan-Queen, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, and General Lane. The book features an all-star creative team – in addition to Miller, SMALLVILLE SEASON 11 creators include print cover artist Gary Frank (SUPERMAN SECRET ORIGIN), digital cover artist Cat Staggs and interiors by Pere Perez (BATGIRL).

“Six months after Clark Kent donned the cape and took to the skies to save Earth from Apokolips… enter Season 11!” enthuses Miller. “New allies abound! New enemies afoot! And old friends return where they’re least expected! Pere and colorist Chris Beckett have done a fantastic job of capturing the look of the show and the players, and Gary and Cat are knocking it out of the park on covers. I couldn’t be more excited to help give seasoned viewers and new readers an all-access pass to Clark’s first year in the cape.”

[crazy_asian_man]

If it's ONLY Bryan Q. Miller and/or Anne Couffel Saunders writing this-

I'll be mildly interested.
It could go either way...

A similiar situation came when "Buffy"'s Joss Whedon became the 'showrunner' to a continuation of that tv series in comic form, but ended up with mostly yawns--- that comic didn't take advantage of its new form (still doesn't).... and ends with the limits of both mediums-

Usual (worst case)
#1: You don't get to see actual live action performances
#2: The art is constrained to not look like the actors, nor is ever free enough to work on its own.
#3: Main (or supporting) characters don't die, nor ever really change.
(Mainly because the rights for using the characters are being paid for)

Result: more of the same thing that never really evolves or is that captivating.

Best scenario:
#1: The stories are extremely compelling with the alternate universe
#2: It brings in 'proper' elements from the comic that they may have not been allowed to visually in the past (costumes etc., better version of Brainiac/etc.)
#3: It uses the comic medium to tell even better stories that they couldn't on the tv budget
#4: It actually has good resolutions and climaxes that the show never had for the season enders.

Unless it's REALLY amazing, hard to see it lasting for too long, outside of diehard Smallville fans...

[Jimbo]

A comic book sequel to a TV show that had its basis in film, originally based on a comic book. I think I have that right.

The whole point of Smallville is done though. It was all about young Clark Kent in Smallville. Now it's about older Clark Kent as Superman in Metropolis, just like any other Superman comic book, but with Welling's appearance. Seems like nothing more than a cash grab to profit off the Smallville name and fan, and not a genuine desire to tell a story. Just erase Welling and draw in Routh, add in the kid, and voila, now it's a Superman Returns comic sequel.

[/cynicism]

[booshman]

That image is hideous.

And what's with the blue trunks? Even the crappy CGI in the finale had the classic red.