The SMALLVILLE Thread

[Metallo]

Aug 7, 2012 18:00:18 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

The problem with Smallville is that they did the whole "make it up as they went along" thing without a passing attempt at making it seem like it was all planned out - done with different degrees of success by Lost, Battlestar Galactica and Star Wars.

Writers came and went and storylines went by the wayside.

....ugh, those stupid caves. ;D

Yup. When you pull sh** out of your ass like that for ten years its just not going to all look so uniform in the long run.

Of course some things were outside of their control but their entire handling of Lana was a disaster of the shows own making. Pete Ross was a screw up too.

The show never did really figure out how to work around the loss of Lex.

Babylon 5 was one of the few sci fi/fantasy shows that had a plan that WAS clearly mapped out that actually worked. The B5 finale seamlessly fit with things that were shown five years before.


The only plan Smallville really had was how the last episode was going to end and they stumbled there too.

[crazy_asian_man]

The problem with Smallville is that they did the whole "make it up as they went along" thing without a passing attempt at making it seem like it was all planned out - done with different degrees of success by Lost, Battlestar Galactica and Star Wars.

Writers came and went and storylines went by the wayside.

Agreed.... though I was hoping to find out through ONE of the commentaries (no luck so far) whether or not the problem was:

(1) DC/WB having too many restrictions in the process?
(We know that WB didn't let them do Batman & Wonder Woman....but on the other hand, the number of other superheroes they DID let get used was pretty nice...)

(2) Tom Welling not wanting to put on the costume? (ever)?

(3) Showrunners that would have been hit/miss on ANY tv show (the same team that created Smallville also created the critically trounced remake of Charlie's Angels, didn't they?), not just Smallville.

In any case.... I still to this day think that they would have been FARRR better off with a miniseries, or even less episodes per season to increase the quality.

I never finished all the episodes, but from what I've seen so far, most of season 1, and the final two seasons (once Millar/Gough left and the story editor of Galactica took over) are my favorites, by far, so far---

But--- if they ever reboot Smallville, HOPEFULLY they'll have a real plan in place next time! (And get someone who's not afraid to wear the costume!)

[monkeymagic]

From what I've seen, although they weren't able to use Wonder Woman per se, they managed to get in the costume. There is an image of Lois wearing something that resembles the Wonder Woman outift, but not like the Lynda Carter one.

[Metallo]

Thank goodness they didn't use Wonder Woman or Batman. I could just imagine how ridiculous that would have been.

Durance wore a Xena-like WW outfit.



Although years later she DID get to wear an official Wonder Woman costume.



Not bad. I think except for being a bit shorter Durance looked as good or better in it than Palicki.

[monkeymagic]

I think Erica looks better than Adrianne Palicki in the failed Wonder Woman pilot outfit. No fake breasts that look like a pair of missiles. The only thing Erica needs to do is dye her hair black or wear a balck wig and she'd look perfect. Note that although she wore the official WW outfit the scene was filmed but left on the cutting room floor.

[Deleted]

I think the Smallville version looks better. The pilot costume looks like some cheap Halloween costume you'd get at Kmart.

[Metallo]

I think they both look pretty cheap but what ya gonna do they're for television. Most tv superhero outfits don't have the best time or money put into them. I see what they were trying to do with the pilot suit but the top would have been better with a more matte surfaced material.

The Smallville WW costume is supposed to look homemade I guess but it looks exactly like what it is: a Xena knockoff. An actual WW costume should have more of the characters own flare.

ALL the actual Smallville superhero suits looked cheap as f*** though. The Dr Fate costume looked like some guys cosplay outfit. Its sad that porn has done better than what Smallville put the DC heroes in.

[Metallo]

Aug 8, 2012 10:58:48 GMT -5 monkeymagic said:

I think Erica looks better than Adrianne Palicki in the failed Wonder Woman pilot outfit. No fake breasts that look like a pair of missiles. The only thing Erica needs to do is dye her hair black or wear a balck wig and she'd look perfect. Note that although she wore the official WW outfit the scene was filmed but left on the cutting room floor.

Durance had better curves than Palicki who was more tall and lanky. They both have fake t*ts but Palicki's look bolted on and even more fake.

[Deleted]

That reminds me, the Wonder-Woman-who-wasn't sure didn't have those things when she was the fake Kara in the season 3 finale. She didn't have them when she was in the Supernatural pilot. Yes, Erica's are much nicer.

[Deleted]

I finished my eight-month journey tonight, finishing my second run-through of Smallville. Whether you like it or not, I'm going to give my ultimate say on the show: I fucking love it.


First, the superficial:

- The effects were great, starting with the Pilot right on through the Finale. I enjoyed seeing a fresh take on heat vision (from the cheesy red beams to having a translucent heat wave), X-ray vision (actual X-ray vision and not see-through vision) and of course "Clark time." Yeah, it was a Matrix rip-off, but they were able to do it at times to surprisingly fun effect. And on a TV show budget!

- The big one: Finale Parts 1 and 2: Needless to say, they had to screen this as a double-episode because nothing really happens for the first hour. It's all wedding prep. By itself, the episode would have been a disaster, but it works when paired with the packed-to-the-walls final 45 minutes.

I know I was disappointed that Tom Welling never really wore the suit. Did I set the bar too high? No, of course not. After 10 years, I wanted the ultimate pay off. But, when I consider Gough and Millar would have likely done, it doesn't seem so bad. What we got was 10-15 minutes of Clark flying, Jonathan handing over the costume, CGI Superman, and a shirt-rip scene set to Williams' score. Gough and Millar, I believe, would not have given us that much. I envision a Gough/Millar finale in which Clark would have saved the world in street clothes, likely mirroring Byrne's Man of Steel, as I don't believe they would have ever put him in any type of costume during the show's run. I believe we would have seen the shirt-rip and nothing more.

I've also come to accept the shirt-rip, as I was able to get a better look at it on DVD. The CW in my area has not gone HD (and it's 2012), so upon the first viewing, the S looks fake. Watching a DVD on my HDTV and with a Blu-ray player with that up-convert feature, I clearly see that the outline of the shield is visible through the white shirt shortly before Welling opens the shirt.

In other words, I'm okay with the finale we got. I've accepted the quick end of Darkseid, Granny, Godfrey and Desaad to be that of Supernatural demons: with the host bodies destroyed, they reverted back to the "demon cloud" form and scattered. I'm sure in the Smallville timeline, they will be seen again. heck, at least the showrunners were consistent in the way they ripped off Supernatural.

- Lana: Oh my god, did I love to see Lana finally go. Her departure from the show after season 7 breathed new life into the series. I got to the point where I really could not stand Kristen Kruek. I'm sure she's a lovely person in real life, but after seven years of her Lana I wanted to smash her face in with a brick. A lot of fans will praise the character as being a necessary relationship to prepare Clark for Lois. I see the never-ending Lana drama as holding Clark back.

- Tom Welling: He's not going to win an Academy Award in his lifetime, but the rookie actor did grow into his role through 10 years. The Clark of the pilot is definitely not the Clark of the finale, and it's not all the writing. One thing that will always bug me about him is the insistence that he never wear the full costume due to fear of typecasting, and yet staying in the same role for 10 years. In a way, he's a hypocrite. I mean, he was typecast the moment that he took the role.

Superman, even without a costume, is somthing with such a following that it can't be escaped, no matter how small a part you play. Few roles can do that. Bond would be another. The only thing that comes close is being typecast as yourself, such as people saying "Arnold Schwarzenegger just played himself" or "Jack Nicholson just did his Jack Nicholson schtick."

I also feel bad for the guy, because this means his best bet is to stay behind the camera for at least five, maybe 10 years, then try to make a TV comeback in an original role and really capture the public's imagination. At the very least, his next role should be as a scumbag. Just think, there are a ton of comedy fans that saw Hugh Laurie as the lesser half of Fry and Laurie, then he had a career resurgence as House. (Of course, Laurie won't be able to shake House. But since this was his second go-round, maybe he'll be okay with riding this out the rest of his career as a 50-plus-old actor, who knows?)

- The Dark Knight. The Batman. I can see why WB didn't want to fuck around with having Bruce Wayne or the Batman on the show. WB needed him to once again become a cash-cow franchise as they had nearly given up on getting Superman off the ground cinematically. Once they did, they weren't about to fuck it up. Of course, having less faith in Superman Returns, WB kept Smallville around - a competing vision of the character - and ultimately showed more loyalty to the show. It was a moneymaker for the CW, while SR didn't perform as they'd hoped (and let's not get into the figures, just accept the consensus that the WB didn't find fulfillment in SR. Otherwise, we've have SR3 next year instead of Man of Steel).

Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, a big disappointment is in not getting a unique take on the Batman. Sure, we're getting to see something through the Smallville Season 11 comic, but it's still not quite the same as having a real actor cast for the part or seeing a suit. I'm not even sure if the Batman we're getting in Season 11 is some kind of unused concept from the show or what. From the art, it looks like most of the other Smallville costumes: one main color with some secondary color for piping and seams. God knows we can't have a Smallville costume or any comics costume this day without overdone seams.

In fact, to remain true to Smallville's idea of a costume, the Batman costume would be a black, zip-up hoodie with ears on the hood, and a cape. Instead of a mask, he'd just sport some sunglasses like Green Arrow. And lots of blue piping and seams. I shit you not that probably would have happened.

I mean, technically, we got the Batman in the form of Green Arrow. But it just wasn't the same.

Now, for the meat of my thoughts on the series run ...
I must say, taking 10 years in over a shorter period of time gave me a better appreciation for the show and its development through the years. Season 10 was nothing like Season 1, and for good reason. The showrunners allowed the show and the atmosphere to grow with the characters (although there is a fair amount of misfires, particularly in the filler episodes).

At times, especially in Season 10, Clark would start to accept the role set out for him, only to waffle a few episodes later. I used to harp on stuff like that, but when I think about my own life, I realize there are many times when I temporarily doubt myself and have to be given a kick in the ass to get back on track. It's only human to feel that way.

Right now, I have so much doubt in my life, such a lack of confidence and self-worth. I've been through some terrible life events in the past two years, and sometimes I don't know if I'll ever get back on track. As stupid as it sounds, this show helps to prop me up when I feel like shit.

The biggest lession I've taken to apply to my life is this: I need to let things go and live in the present. I spend way too much time dwelling on the mistakes I've made. I spend way too much time worrying about my future and if I can turn my life around. I don't always apreciate what I have in this moment, and that is what is slowly killing me in spirit.

I need to hold on to all the good I have and quit worrying about the negative, because my fear of screwing up is keeping me from improving my life.

The 200th episode, the homecoming episode from the final season, really hit home with that message. I watched it just the other night, and the things said in that 45 minutes really struck a chord with me in a way my counselor just hasn't been able to do. It spoke to me, and it told me that I have to break myself of an unhealthy cycle of dwelling in the negatives of my past and quit fearing what's to come. They go hand-in-hand and can be devastating.

- Among the strongest characters were Lionel and Chloe, original creations that really aided the show. I can't imagine an origin for Lex without Lionel these days, as John Glover was in superb form, sometimes hamming it up but also playing the part with a great deal of menace when needed. Watch an interview with Glover in which he describes his through process behind his performances, and it's clear the man was never phoning it in.

Allison Mack turned into a fine superhero sidekick, even if she did suffer from poor writing. She was the one who had to deliver all of the expository dialogue, and along with Pete, represented the average person like us. She was our avatar into that world. Eventually, she grew into much more and became much less relatable as seasons went on, particularly when she gained a meteor power and then was bonded with Brainiac. She was at her best during season 3 as she battled Lionel. Plus, she's adorable as heck. Sure, Smallville has had hotter women (Erica Durance, Cassidy Freeman, and a host of guest stars for roles such as Zatanna and Maxima), but Chloe was the keeper. She's the one you want to settle down with and start a family. Even my wife indulges my Chloe crush by usually wearing her hair short (and it helps that she's blond).

- What will always stick with me about this show is John Schneider and the bond he had with Tom Welling. You can tell that he cared a great deal for his co-star and let it shine through in his performances. The relationship between Clark and Jonathan is one I wish I could have had with my dad when I was younger, and it's not too late. My dad and I have grown closer over the past few years, and I'm sure it's in part due to Smallville. It's the kind of father-son bond I would want should I have a boy of my own.

Of the 218 episodes, I'm always the most emotional when it comes to Jonathan's death in Episode 100 and the immediate follow up in 101. I remember bawling when it set in that they really killed him off. I didn't think they'd do it. I knew there was the precedent because of the Donner movie, but I thought, surely they're not writing out John Schneider! This guy has turned into my surrogate dad!

I teared up in the season 10 premiere and then the finale when Jonathan came back. I lost it when John Schneider got to hand the suit to Tom Welling. But I understood why the showrunners did it. Jonathan Kent was the moral compass of the show, but at some point Clark had to become that focal point. It's not enough that Clark is the main character, but he has to be the guiding hand behind the basic principles for the new generation of heroes. Although it seemed he was inconsistent through the years, I blame that on how the show is spread out. As the show developed week-to-week and season-to-season, we tend to forget things. Taken in more consistenly, I realize that the showrunners were more consistent in this characterization of Clark than I initially gave credit.

Even with all the fucked up stuff Lex and Lionel went through during their seven-year run (and of course the extremely back-and-forth between Clark and Jor-El, which I attribute to a lack of consistant vision by the showrunners), I find Smallville to ultimately be a show about fathers and sons.

It's why I love it so much.

[ye5man]

Lionel Luthor needed his own show

[crazy_asian_man]

Great post, Bamabrad!

In spite of all the stuff I hated about the series, reading this post made me remember the good in it as well over the seasons.

Unlike some shows that are just out and out bad, for me what makes Smallville incredibly frustrating is that it's NOT completely bad, there were episodes over the years that were amazing, there's fresh takes on things that made one sit up and notice (particularly the pilot's choice of how to deal with the Clark/Lex relationship)--- but you're right.... the lack of a real solid plan (compared to Babylon 5, which always had the plan mapped out from the start) kept the show often straying into 'filler' material.

What will always stick with me about this show is John Schneider and the bond he had with Tom Welling.

Agreed. Who knew that John Schneider (who I found irritating on tv in my youth) could be so cool in his later years? Next to Rosenbaum as Lex, Schneider as Pa Kent was a real 'find'.

(*Aside: he was at a toyfare show in town a few years back & a friend of mine chatted with him and just talked about what a humble and cool guy he is in person. Always nice to hear.)

And.... if nothing else, we got to see part of the LEGION and JSA on tv, too! How cool was that? (Even though with goofy costumes) Always will be grateful for that.... if Arrow does become the 'Brave and the Bold' in its own way, that would be awesome- but I'd be suprised if WB lets them do anything like what Smallville did, if they're seriously (ha) considering big screen versions of the characters later for JLA or such & want to save them (like Batman not being used for Smallville).

[Metallo]

If you MUST have Smallvilleverse Batman think of the BOP Batman as it. BOP seemed to hint that it was set it the Smallville universe early on.

[Deleted]

Wonder if I should start getting the Smallville dvds

I can usually watch anything Superman, I even loved the first couple of seasons of Lois and Clark, but for some reason I never got into Smallville

[Paul (ral)]

Kris, about 50% of the episodes will have you asking why you are giving your time up to watch it. I would base any purchasing decision off that.

[Valentine Smith]

Aug 17, 2012 5:53:44 GMT -5 @bamabrad said:

As stupid as it sounds, this show helps to prop me up when I feel like shit.

Not stupid AT ALL, dude. Really, at the end of the day, THAT is what Superman is here for. This is a fictional character that, throughout my life, has resonated more with me than any religion ever has or ever will. It doesn't matter what incarnation of Supes does that for you, AS LONG AS HE DOES THAT.

All Star Superman (the comics) did that for me. STM has been doing it for me for literally as long as I can remember. It's a good thing. This is how Superman saves us here in the real world!

[ye5man]

Well said Val, good man.

[Deleted]

Smallville is the only show to have been there through every big transition of my life. College, relationships, moving to different states, growing up, maturing, Smallville was always there. It wasn't always great but I felt a sense of loss when it ended. It was nice to know it was on, no matter what.

[cypher85]

Smallville is the only show to have been there through every big transition of my life. College, relationships, moving to different states, growing up, maturing, Smallville was always there. It wasn't always great but I felt a sense of loss when it ended. It was nice to know it was on, no matter what.

Ditto

I hadn't thought about it before really, but like Kev, most of the major milestones in my life actually occurred during those 10 years. Graduating high school, then college, getting married, first job, buying a house.

There were some really shitty episodes. But, some pretty cool kick ass ones too.

[crazy_asian_man]

Smallville is the only show to have been there through every big transition of my life. College, relationships, moving to different states, growing up, maturing, Smallville was always there. It wasn't always great but I felt a sense of loss when it ended. It was nice to know it was on, no matter what.

Interesting...... had that same experience, but with the Star Trek Next Gen and its spinoff series. (The movie is great, but doesn't quite compare to having a Trek show constantly on tv for the longest time it had it...)

[thecolorsblend]

I've been really enjoying the Smallville comic. It does a good job of showing that even though the TV show fulfilled its mandate, there are still plenty of stories to tell.

As I look around though, I don't see any comics which continue with Singer's atrocious movie. And I doubt there will ever be one.

[Deleted]

Hi there! Glad I'm not the only one reading it. If you like, we had a thread going for it in the comics board if you want to discuss it further.

Then again, if you saw my long dissertation on the subject higher on this page, you may not want to put up with my shit. I can be ... thorough ... in my thoughts.

[thecolorsblend]

May 24, 2013 0:19:01 GMT -5 @bamabrad said:

Hi there! Glad I'm not the only one reading it. If you like, we had a thread going for it in the comics board if you want to discuss it further.

Then again, if you saw my long dissertation on the subject higher on this page, you may not want to put up with my shit. I can be ... thorough ... in my thoughts.

No.

[crazy_asian_man]

I've been really enjoying the Smallville comic. It does a good job of showing that even though the TV show fulfilled its mandate, there are still plenty of stories to tell.

As I look around though, I don't see any comics which continue with Singer's atrocious movie. And I doubt there will ever be one.

I don't get the Smallville continuation- but at least I understand that one of the tv show writers either is in charge of it or writes a majority of it so that it's Smallville 'canon' (much like the Buffy comic with Joss Whedon giving approval on it).

I'm in the small minority that would LOVE it if there actually was a comic continuation of both Singer and Donner's films. Or even an adaptation of Donner's SII (not the RDC but from Mank's script and Donner's input)- and go from there....

Pity that Donner lost interest in comics once he did a couple of Superman stories (Probably from the artist taking a year to complete a final chapter of one of Donner's story).

[thecolorsblend]

May 24, 2013 1:13:05 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I don't get the Smallville continuation- but at least I understand that one of the tv show writers either is in charge of it or writes a majority of it so that it's Smallville 'canon' (much like the Buffy comic with Joss Whedon giving approval on it).

I'm in the small minority that would LOVE it if there actually was a comic continuation of both Singer and Donner's films. Or even an adaptation of Donner's SII (not the RDC but from Mank's script and Donner's input)- and go from there....

Pity that Donner lost interest in comics once he did a couple of Superman stories (Probably from the artist taking a year to complete a final chapter of one of Donner's story).

I'm okay with this arrangement, actually. Smallville took a lot of abuse during its run, much of it was unjustified, and the Donner movies get plenty of love as it is. As for Singer, some things are best left forgotten (even if they'll never be forgiven).

So, nope, I wouldn't change a thing.