Some ideas for Superman 2

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 17, 2010 13:20:41 GMT -5 atp said:

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

I do have some other ideas and I will share them please.

The "thanks" I gave was for Dickie Donner, not you ATP. Oh, and now your saying "please" is just redundant because you're talking about what you're gonna do, not what you're asking someone to do.

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 17, 2010 13:33:55 GMT -5 Knight said:

Bump SII upto a 12a cert and Terrence Stamp's audio would work a treat.

I can't decide where it would be better...used in S2 as I said earlier or during the trail in STM as Jor-El walks away from the villains instead of ''your heirs''

he shouts....

....''you bastard!!!'' lol ;D

Not sure what you mean by bumping the audio up to 12a cert. If you mean lowering the pitch to Stamp's voice in the DC scenes, I've already done that. As for putting "You bastard" in place of "your heirs", 3 reasons why it wouldn't work. 1) It's a recap of part 1 and I don't wanna change something from part 1. 2) I'd have to do a cutaway when he says it, and it would be jarring to look at considering all the close-ups. Also the tone of his voice doesn't exactly fit there either. and 3), putting it during the metro battle or the FOS showdown will work much better. Maybe even for the arctic patrol deleted scene. I'm not sure who it is that says "Can we talk about it?" at the beginning of this scene, but it certainly doesn't sound like Stamp or Jack. Anyway, I'm thinking maybe it can be used like this:

1) "Come to me Son of Jor-el!! Kneel before Zod, you bastard!!!!" (fitting, because Jor-el is dead and Superman no longer has a father, though I'll have to try it out and hear how it sounds first)

2) Maybe work it in with "Son of Jor-el, you bastard, prepare to die!!" for a scene during the Metro battle. I'm never going to use the deleted scene of the force-field outside the FOS, so maybe something like that. I should probably try to work in "KIIILL HIIIM!!" from the RIC to.

[Knight]

I meant increasing the age certification from a PG to a 12A to make an accommodation for that one use of bad language.

My last two posts on this were meant as a joke,never intended for use at all. I was amused at the documentary, I heard Stamp say ''bastard'' like that and I instantly imagined Superman look up at Zod as the villains are about to hurl the coach at him.

But,yea the extras are great for picking up audio to be looped in later on,definitely.

[atp]

Nov 17, 2010 15:41:17 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Nov 17, 2010 13:20:41 GMT -5 atp said:

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

I do have some other ideas and I will share them please.

The "thanks" I gave was for Dickie Donner, not you ATP.

Oh, and now your saying "please" is just redundant because you're talking about what you're gonna do, not what you're asking someone to do.

Well, can't you try to create CGI villains?

Please try to do it Mr Durden?

[TylerDurden389]

Nope. Cuz I have no idea how. And as I said, CAM already created this scene. Just gotta wait for him to get back to me and let me know if i can upload his clip to show you.

[Rod]

Nov 17, 2010 13:33:55 GMT -5 Knight said:

Bump SII upto a 12a cert and Terrence Stamp's audio would work a treat.

I can't decide where it would be better...used in S2 as I said earlier or during the trail in STM as Jor-El walks away from the villains instead of ''your heirs''

he shouts....

....''you bastard!!!'' lol ;D

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Or in the last scene when Zod is defeated by Superman...
'you bastaaaaaaaaaard"

Joke aside this line can be cool in the movie.

[crazy_asian_man]

I have had 4 years to come to terms with the Donner Cut, and while it's not the perfect film, I now realise that was never Mr Thau's brief, and it's unfair to criticize him.

He wasn't setting out to make the perfect blend of Lester and Donner. His job was to show the film that Donner would have made.

Thau may not have had the time or materials to do a perfect job...
BUT-
It's the Donner parts that were well edited in the LC/ RDC ALREADY that should not have been touched--- and I'm talking primarily voice replacements and unnecessary music replacements--- that drive me nuts.

I understand that there probably was no budget for a fresh score, (this is similiar to Mel Gibson's "Payback" movie which had VERY little money to be rescored, so they had to find someone CHEAP to do so)--
and I know music re-editing takes time....

But...

The end result is hard to sit through, despite some great scene extensions/bits here and there.

With "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and "Avatar" (and I'm sure there are others)- the bluray allows you to click on and select which alternate version you'd prefer.

I'm glad that the Donner footage is now available to the public, but after seeing the IRC on tv- the IRC does seem like a much better Donner cut in general. It's flawed with bad Lester stuff, but then again, that's true of all the versions....

Thus, why fans who loved STM to death end up doing a recut for themselves. It's so that they can have their own SII that they can enjoy viewing in their home, after 20+ years of waiting for the second part of Donner's vision without it feeling so poorly put together that one can barely get through it.....

[Knight]

exactly,Cam!

I don't want to have to watch two versions of SII to enjoy the sequel,when clearly the film can be altered as we like it and have it on one disc as opposed to two.

That's a lot of twos!

[TylerDurden389]

Lol, I don't remember which S2 review I read, but a few years ago the review I read said something along the lines of "with all these re-cuts and fan versions of Superman 2 being made in light of the Donner Cut's release, Superman 2 will become the most deconstructed film in the years to come". He certainly wasn't kidding.

As for dvds that have different music options, I say the BEST example is the movie "Legend' with Tom Cruise. The official dvd has 2 versions. One with a "timeless" score that fits the"fantasy" setting (unicorns, goblins and elves) that was done by Jerry Goldsmith. The other version is more "pop" and fits the 80's techno sound, done by Tangerine Dream. I like both scores personally but if I had to choose, I'd go with T.D. because it's the one I grew up on.

[Knight]

I read something similar,I remember : ''somewhere out there,there is a Superman II that is better than Superman II''


It's good to take a step off the gas a bit and look at this a little light heartedly.


Does anyone have a link to the RIC of II,I'm fed up of unsuccessfully trying to find it on the web. PM me if need be.

[TylerDurden389]

Dude, you're telling me there isn't a torrent for it if you just type it in google? Eh, don't feel too bad. I made the mistakes of actually BUYING the RIC online back in '03. Don't remember how much I payed, and I seriously don't wanna remember. Oh, and I actually bought vhs copies of the KCOP and the ABC cut of 2 sometime before the RIC (earlier that year I guess). I think I payed 13 for the abc cut. Or maybe that was for the KCOP, and 10 for the ABC. Funny thing is, my copy of the KCOP is STILL missing a few bits. My copy is a minute or 2 shorter than the 188 "official" runtime.

[Knight]

All I get is links to various sites that just have reviews for it and scene differences,total pain.

--- I seem to have found it!

[atp]

I wonder if someone could upload the torrent in CGI?

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 19, 2010 10:25:14 GMT -5 atp said:

I wonder if someone could upload the torrent in CGI?

That sentence makes no sense.

[matt]

This capture is from the end credits of STM. Could it be used for SII style opening credits?

[Jimbo]

I did that in my cut.

[crazy_asian_man]

Well, can't you try to create CGI villains?

I did a version. Too busy today, but...
wait for it....

[Knight]

Been busy getting to grips with a new programme (thanks Tyler!) ,having fun finally being able to see my ideas take shape visually and not just on paper.

So,this also means that I can go back to STM and fix the little things that have always bothered me.


Jor-El's words from TDC 'your mother,Lara has sent you three blankets' etc as the ship journeys to earth. Used it here as it's not in my edit outline for SII.


Scene in Perry White's office while Clark hears Lex via the high frequency. That is now a mix of dialogue looped over carefully edited footage of the Perry White scene at the start of SII (cutting out Olsen,of course) TLC.

So, instead of Clark diving out of the window while PW has his back turned,he now runs out to the street (Lex V/O also looped here) runs into the alley and changes,takes flight and then cuts back into STM right before Superman flys past the bus.

I get to keep the best reveal/change. Oh,how I have missed it!!


(the scene in STM and SII TLC are pretty much the same scene(s),keep in mind next time you watch them)

Am having my cut as the theatrical edition with the addition of bullets.fire and ice in Lex's hide out.


Superman takes grip of XK101 and flys out into space,releasing the PZV. Here,using the music and sound FX from when in SII Superman flys the elevator into space,past the moon and explodes freeing the PZV.


Lois doesn't die here,simply cutting out when the earth swallows up the car etc. She just runs out of gas (as originally planned)

Just my ideas for STM. Will discuss II soon...

[Valentine Smith]

So, without Lois' death, are you eliminating "turning back time"?

[Knight]

That's right,Valentine. I always use it as it was intended for,the end of SII.

No 'backwards footage' though,just a continuous shot of Superman turning the world back.

To me,having the set up of the villains at the start of STM seems redundant unless they are freed at the end of the film,an excellent pay off.

[TylerDurden389]

I like you're idea of using the alleyway reveal for STM if you don't wanna use the Paris Hydrogen Bomb. IMO, the "fade" costume reveal after he jumped out the window pretty much got milked to death as the series progressed. Funny thing is, Donner and Mank probably chose to do it as a last resort because they were running out of time, and didn't like the effect in the first place (though I'll have to re-read the shooting script to clarify this). Either way, the effect was only half finished anyway lol.

[Knight]

Yea,the idea of ALL the DP staff not noticing Clark jump from the window because they were watching the TV,what?- na,never liked that.

The alley reveal works excellently,espc as Clark steps from the DP onto the street and can still hear Lex,brilliant.

It bugged me for ages how can I use that change scene in I or II,answer was right in front of me all along.

[crazy_asian_man]

Yea,the idea of ALL the DP staff not noticing Clark jump from the window because they were watching the TV,what?- na,never liked that.

The alley reveal works excellently,espc as Clark steps from the DP onto the street and can still hear Lex,brilliant.

It bugged me for ages how can I use that change scene in I or II,answer was right in front of me all along.

But...um....unless memory is wrong, isn't he wearing a different color suit in that scene from STM than the alleyway change?

(If so, don't get me wrong- totally ok, it's your cut- my own has TONS of continuity glitches throughout--- but just wanted to give a heads up, if that was a biggie or not. I should have mentioned that it was meant as that, not as a criticism...)

[johnnyboy]

Nov 19, 2010 12:11:16 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Nov 19, 2010 10:25:14 GMT -5 atp said:

I wonder if someone could upload the torrent in CGI?

That sentence makes no sense.

You're right.

Nov 19, 2010 10:25:14 GMT -5 atp said:

I wonder if someone could upload the torrent in CGI? Please.

Fixed.

[TylerDurden389]

Today I did some serious thinking about the new scenes I have in mind. Superman having conflicting thoughts while flying to get dinner, and essentially "arguing" with his father. Then he lands in the junkyard (courtesy of S3), screaming in anger/confusion, then seeing the car, smiling, and cut to him carrying it back (with the footage of him and Pryor flying, Pryor removed and car inserted into the shot).

However, upon thinking about it, as well as thinking about how my "Supes consults his father" scene I made and showed you guys didn't go over so well, I realized I should forget about this scene as well. I had dialogue in that scene, and you guys felt it didn't convey the message well enough. This scene would have essentially no dialogue (save for the "voices" in Supes Head), and you'd have to figure out what's going on purely on Supes emotions. Now granted, to me the shots I have in mind will clearly tell what's going on, but if the majority of people watching it are confused and need it spelled out, then I can't explain to everyone who watches to it lol.

So, at this point, it looks like my new repowering scene is pretty much all I'll be doing. I do still have ideas of making a new ending. I know that my cut has a new ending with recycled footage from STM, S2, and S3, but I hate doing that. So like the repowering, I want to make completely new flying shots. Don't get me wrong, the alleyway reveal WILL STAY, but once he takes off I want the last 5-6 shots to be completely different. In fact, I'm thinking if I can get it just right, I can rotoscope the last shot of Reeve looking at the camera and smiling at us. Though if I do that, I'm gonna go all out and rotoscope the infamous "wink" shot from the making of doc. I'll fix the color, picture quality and everything.

Another editor on fanedit.org is making a fancut that combines parts 1 and 2 into one film and he's making completely new opening credits. He's new to using AE, as I will be when I try it out. Seeing him make new opening credits is making me think about making new credits for mine as well. If I can use the space footage from STM during the "training" scene, as well as the shots from the making of doc (like CAM did), I think I could make entirely new credits. Granted, the shots would be exactly the same (I'd still have the theatrical style recap), but it would be nice not to re-hash the STM credits. If anyone wants to check out what he's done, just look up "Superman: Son of Jor-el" on fanedit.org's message board.