matt
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Post by matt on Apr 11, 2011 12:12:58 GMT -5
This idea of mine is to try and salvage something out of the more humorous scenes in the films and make them properly "darker". The first thing you'll notice is I added the music in the b.g. The music builds up as the scene itself builds up, and it ends with Zod killing these two officers by blowing their car with his heat vision (they won't appear later in the East Houston scenes) In earlier drafts I didn't have footage of a car exploding, and I just kept the sound of an explosion, but cutaway so that you're left guessing. Now I have footage of a car exploding in a similar setting but it's not exact, which is why it's a very quick cut. I'll continue to look for footage that works, and I'll also see what AE can do. Either way, I don't wanna play this scene out as normal. Booshman did a great job with his idea for this scene, but I didn't think the "quick shadow figure" grabbing the gun from him worked. The second half of the sequence is my take on the diner scene. I've removed any humor here and kept the villains hurting the townfolks. A member who viewed my cut told me this scene doesn't work, and I'll probably use a version of this scene from another fan edit that replaces the music to make the scene darker. However, I thought you guys should see it anyway and tell me if you think there's any way I can salvage this. I really like the first half, the second scene to much edited out. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 11, 2011 20:46:46 GMT -5
I really like the first half, the second scene to much edited out. Yeah, I'm going to probably keep that *mostly* scene as-is, with minor alterations. Different music, lines with be cut, and of course, if Zod kills the 2 cops on the dirt road, then they can't show up later on right? lol. |
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Post by lois on Apr 12, 2011 12:50:23 GMT -5
This is a rough draft of my proposed idea of using the 2 deleted scenes from STM and bridging them for Superman 2. What do you guys think? I like it! I like it! You did a super (pardon the pun) job!  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 12, 2011 15:56:38 GMT -5
So, the question here is, how to end the story with Lois? The amnesia kiss feels like a gyp, and the time-reversal is re-hashing. Booshman's edit is the only edit I can think of that lets Lois know his secret, and they play it off as normal the next day. As an idea i thought of years ago, I've gone through many different ways of figuring out how to go about the exact same idea. I've always favored the alternate line readings and alternate music from the RIC (as it's the version I grew up on). The added RIC dialogue shows that Lois CAN be happy knowing his secret. However, since the RIC footage is bad quality, it can't be used. So, I overdubbed the DC with the RIC sound, adding in music where needed. This version of their goodbye seems much more positive to me, and makes the "pizza" scene the next morning work just as well.
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matt
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Post by matt on Apr 12, 2011 16:38:23 GMT -5
I like that a lot. Great idea!  |
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Apr 12, 2011 19:01:38 GMT -5
cool |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 12, 2011 22:51:16 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 14, 2011 0:22:53 GMT -5
I agree that the first half is excellent- (what is that footage from?)- the second part is confusing, as too much is cut out. (Also was suprised about the part of Zod rolling his eyes being left in).
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 14, 2011 8:39:32 GMT -5
I agree that the first half is excellent- (what is that footage from?)- the second part is confusing, as too much is cut out. (Also was suprised about the part of Zod rolling his eyes being left in). Thanks CAM. The shot of the car exploding was some random HD shot that I found. Countless hours of trying to find a shot of a car exploding that looks like the the one the cops are driving. The second part with Zod rolling his eyes was, my idea that Zod was rolling his eyes about the "circus is in town" line that is spoken when they first walk in. He essentially threw the guy who said it through the wall, and was simply sighing. Yeah, it was an "out there" idea lol. |
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matt
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Post by matt on May 17, 2011 0:08:20 GMT -5
Any new updates on your edit?
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 17, 2011 14:06:55 GMT -5
Any new updates on your edit? None ATM. It really comes down to taking the plunge and learning how to rotscope. Which I know is going to take a lot of time and practice to learn. I'm still in school at the moment, and I need to studdy a lot, as these last classes before I finish are very difficult. A friend of mine that does know how to do this stuff is *supposedly* working on some things for me, but I haven't spoken to him in months. I texted him once but he didn't answer. TBH, after 3 years of working on this thing it feels nice to take a break and not think about Superman 2 at all. However, the only thought I can say I've put into this recently is this. I'm going to make 2 versions of my final cut. The one that will be publicly available will be a much tighter and streamlined version of the film, with very little, possibly none of my *radical* ideas that I've come up with over the years. Things like Lois knowing his secret in the end, the deleted scenes from 1 being used for 2 (like the feed the babies idea I posted, as well as Superman consulting Jor-el about changing human history), my DP Paris scene ending (I've had a few people tell me that putting this scene last makes the film feel like it has 3 different endings), and possibly even the Selutron scenes. It will definitely be a "bare-bones" fan cut that's more like all the other fancuts on the site. With all the problems from both versions being fixed, of course. However, the other final cut will be my personal "everything but the kitchen sink" version where I keep in virtually everything. After 3 years of editing this film, taking things out, putting them back in, altering and editing further, I've realized that I am completely indecisive. Now I understand why George Lucas keeps going back and tweaking the original trilogy. Is the film the directors property, or is it the fans property? Does Lucas have the right to alter these films? I suppose by giving us both versions, he and all of us can have our cake and eat it to. So I've decided I may as well follow suit. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2011 21:11:27 GMT -5
Cannot agree more--- but, George should follow his buddy Steve Speilberg's lead & let ALL versions be available to fans (a la his CE3K).
I do wonder, though: Did Thau and Donner agonize even as much as the fans do over the SII cut at this point? My money is on 'probably not'...
(Though what I'm dying to do is find someone to report on the Donner Q&A to hear what he thinks of the Thau Donner cut more in detail, now that time has passed at that event coming up....)
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Aug 27, 2011 19:38:30 GMT -5
Hey guys!! Been a while since I posted any ideas, I know. I've needed a break from this. I'm not ready to dive back into this fully yet, but here's something I whipped up today. One great piece of criticism in regards to my cut (from more than one person of course) is that I tried to put way too much into the ending. By putting so much in, it makes the ending of the film drag. So I decided to go and try the opposite. In this ending, I've removed the next morning amnesia kiss (as always with my cut, Lois knows his secret and they play it off as an inside joke at work), no time-reversal, not even the diner bully revenge. Clark leaves to get the pizza, the triumphant music begins to play, and Supes returns the flag. Check it out.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 28, 2011 1:44:02 GMT -5
Well- that's the problem with the last portion of SII - in any cut. The work you have speeds it up- but the great cost is a feeling like a scene is missing between the rooftop and the dp the next day. If they are 'playing off an in-joke', maybe if there were a few seconds (maybe with music) in between- showing both Supes solo & Lois solo, reacting privately to their new roles before they see each other the next day, but something in between feels needed... though I agree that the Lester kiss drags and the Donner time reversal makes no sense, either. SII....always a mess, now matter how its cut, it'll NEVER be perfect. *sigh*  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Aug 28, 2011 9:01:50 GMT -5
Lol, the only thing that can possibly be used is the extra 'I won't tell anyone who you really are'. "I know Lois, I know." from the RIC. So we've got them saying it in both that and the theatrical. i'm sure I'll come up with some idea eventually. Even if it's just some sort of v.o.
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 24, 2011 12:54:43 GMT -5
Tone. Over in another thread the issue of tone came up,being a key factor in editing the two twos together. Example: DC Daily Planet Jump,drawing conclusions is a lot more lighter, humorous than the serious LC Waterfall Jump. LC De-powering is warmer and kinder in tone. As were the DC is very serious and thorough... So,if I'm going to have the DC DPJ... I would include in this the LC de-powering with Lara? If I was to use the LC WFJ I might use the more serious de-powering with Jor-El? See what/where am going with this? But,just because am going for a lighter in tone cut doesn't mean I want all the screw ball,god damn awful comedy that is jarringly annoying. That will go. As will the walking on water,snake bite... ''beans,can't eat beans. Come out in a rash if I eat beans. ''  ffs! I'm gonna have TDPJ,edit out a few seconds here and there. (Clark's window double...) Loop over an exteria shot of Niagra/the Hotel: ''Lois,we've been through these hallucinations of these before,throwing yourself from a building almost thirty stories high?'' INT. Hotel moments later as Lois is at sipping coffee... ''If Perry White could see me now. Clark,could you pass me my comb?''.... I'm thinking when Lex and Eve go to the FOS... Lex does see Jor-El.. ''are you the old man? He looks just like the kid'' etc etc... When Eve passes Lex another bigger crystal,Lara then appears to warn about the PZ criminals... So,we are introduced to both Jor-El and Lara in this scene. Superman see's Lara while losing his powers then,has to confront Pop to regain them. How does that sound?? Cam? TD? |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 24, 2011 17:14:26 GMT -5
Have to think on this more..... the tone I agree got sideswiped by Lester's version--- but the RDC's music editing/choppy editing overall created scenes that felt more incomplete- so the only tone that comes out of it is painful confusion (looking at Reeve running into the FOS & the talk with his dad)--- will have to think more about the scenes you mentioned, and repost....
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 25, 2011 0:58:21 GMT -5
Thought about it, and it is interesting that you mentioned a consistent tone as a key approach in choosing between these alternative takes....
In many ways, the SII versions should be taught in film schools as a class in just how different a film can be shaped, based on choices of camera composition, story changes, music editing, etc.---
Anyhow- I actually had the DP jump with the waterfall jump- the movie felt too incomplete to me without it. The tone shifting from the Niagara rescue of the boy to the screen test is so jarring, that it stops the movie cold for me on repeat viewings.
Oddly, I actually thought that the DP Jump by Donner was more serious than the Waterfall jump.... so, matching it up with Jorel's depowering and no Lara was no problem with me.
In fact, although the addition of Lara is clever and could work in editing, I could never feel 'right' about Lara being integrated back in with Jorel in the same place, but that's just me.
Having Lara appear for the whole discussion with Supes for the depowering, then having Jorel appear later for repowering, actually works better for me, even though it probably makes less sense. I guess having both in the scene jars me too much because of geographically where they both are supposed to be bugs me too much.
But, best way to know is just to do a quick rough edit.... I've been wrong before when I was 'certain' this or that wouldn't work....
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 25, 2011 12:56:34 GMT -5
Actually, since you mentioned this, it's been stuck in my head as a good touchstone for a fan edit, as the 2 SII's seem to be the ultimate nightmare in creating to puzzle together a 'perfect' fan cut- given all its problems. If tone choices overrides who shot what: Then, my own revised choices would be- 1. Lester's prologue w/Criminals killing the guard (it's shot cheaply, but as a kid, it was still chilling to see Non snap the guard's head and it was something 'fresh' for the criminals to do, versus repeating exactly what we saw with the trial) 2. Transitioning (so it looks like another time and place) to the trial with Jorel 3. Adjusted Lesterish flashback credits 4. Paris (to my suprise--- but with trimming some of the lame Lois being an idiot stuff and the rather slow- and menace-deflating removing the hostages stuff) 5. Mixed Phantom Zone criminals release 6. Cab hit (altered) 7. Daily Planet Jump 8. Lex in prison 9. Moon attack (minus the jokes) 10. Lex escape 11. Honeymoon Haven (maybe....do we REALLY need to see them check into a hotel?) 12. Lex balloon 13. Niagara rescue (trimmed idiot parents) 14. Lex and Jorel 15. Waterfall jump (matches the tone of the previous scene... compromise is that would Lois be so dumb as to jump twice? In my head, she's determined that the first time was a coincidence that the awning was already open) 16. Villains arrive (but no snake) 17. Either Pink Bear or altered Screen test 18. Villains attack the alps (created) 19. Supes/Lois to FOS 20. Reporter montage of Villains attacking East Houston 21. Supes/Lois at FOS/gets dinner 22. Selutron's Washington monument stuff 23. Supes/Lois Souffle 24. General Zod's speech in front of monument (generated) 25. Supes/Lois dinner 26. Selutron's 'generals' 27. Jorel depowering Supes/re-edited 28. White House 29. Diner/Lester's return to FOS 30. Donner's Jorel repowering 31. Lex in White House 32. Return of Supes/DP attack 33. Metro battle 34. Supes leaves 35. Return to DP 36. FOS confrontation 37. Balcony scene 38. Turning back time --- with closeups - or - memory kiss? -or-  39. Pizza scene 40. Jimmy's Camera 41. Diner 42. White House Flag Anyhow, just a rough 'thinking out loud' after you mentioned tone....the main thing that changed for me was adding Paris- (something never thought I'd consider) as the tone is mostly serious in that scene- if you remove the idiot Lois bits- and confirming the idea of using the waterfall jump & pink bears, because the performances transition more smoothly to those, versus the tone of the performances from the niagara rescue- to the screentest. (On both Clark and Lois' parts) |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 25, 2011 15:08:20 GMT -5
Guys, I'm probably never going to release my cut. I had decided on changing "The No Camp Cut" to "The Re-powered Cut" (since we all agreed there's still plenty of camp in the film) before Booshman told me he liked my ideas. Since Blu-ray is the way to go now, I realize that most of the ideas that I have for my cut will have to be scrapped since a lot of the ideas require using scenes from both the RIC of S2 and the KCOP of STM, as well as deleted scenes AND clips from other films (like Selutron did). None of this is any good for a blu-ray fan cut. Mostly because I no longer feel Selutron's clips with scenes from other movies works for me anymore. It was fascinating to see stuff like that, but the novelty has worn off, and I'm a lot more realistic about not only those ideas, but other editing ideas as well.
So I've decided to finally let Superman 2 go, and get to work on other fan edit movies I've been wanting to do for a good 4 years now. I have 5-6 other fan edits in mind, and most of them won't take more than a week (permitted I have nothing else going on in my life) to do, each. Also another reason I don't wanna finish this is because my cut was taken off the "unapproved" section and put back into the "in-the-works" section, even though I didn't ask the admins to do so. I was fine with people seeing my 6th draft while I worked on the last draft. But I guess it was against the rules or something.
What I've decided is, if Booshman's cut isn't close enough to what my idea of a "perfect" version of S2 (doesn't have to be 100%, but definitely more than 75% of how I would do it), then I'll take whichever clips from Jimbo's blu-ray cut (after he does it), and combine the best ideas from both of these versions and make my own personal blu-ray fan cut of S2 that will not be uploaded for download. Way I see it, both Booshman and Jim are *pretty much* on the money with what most of us agree with what "works".
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 25, 2011 15:11:46 GMT -5
Thanks for your input on this...
Interesting can of worms isn't it? But tone is very much hey regarding these to films...
The Eiffel tower plot drives me nuts, ''here is the boring part''. They actually said how boring that part of the film is... plus Superman takes years to get there. Without the Concord fly, by this scene falls flat on it's arse! and is out of any future cut. Awful.
After ages of thinking the reprise is gone too. yea it has sentiment,but I can live without it. So I'll start my film with the open credits from TDC...
DPJ (edit out a few seconds)
Lex and Otis LC
Moon LC, mission control... I have warmed to them two,with a slight edit here and there)
Prison escape DC
Niagra edit,Lois never see's or takes CK's glasses off. Her suspicious nature takes a hold when Superman flys off...
Lex and Eve FOS,edit of DC and LC (no toilet humour in this cut) Jor-El/Lara...
Niagra hotel loop of DC audio that cuts into LC... Clark pass me the comb...
Villains land, sheriff: ''I bet they're from LA''.
Dinner in the FOS etc
Edited Huston...
Lara de-powering...
White House,Diner,fight DC
Jor-El,re-powering...
DP DC fight,with edits from LC etc throughout...
DP ''superman fled'' DC/FOS DC/Good by kiss... balcony... DP Pizza...
''Superman Takes Day Off''
Flying the flag...
Thats a rough outline,somethings I have forgotten but,you see what I mean,
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 26, 2011 3:55:27 GMT -5
Well, you're definitely saving yourself a world of hurt via the rotoscoping. Fun, it's NOT.  For my own part, the RDC is such a mess, I still find there are bits here and there that drive me up the wall without alterations made, even if it's not possible to only use the blurays. If MOS is a giant hit and WB is rolling in the dough and someone in Donner's camp can convince WB to give a few dollars more to fix the RDC edit to make it at least as good as the IRC's version of the Donner stuff, I'll be happy enough at this point.... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 26, 2011 3:59:11 GMT -5
Would be interesting to see this cut....
As far as the Paris stuff- I think that it could be re-edited to be shorter and actually make it exciting.
The reprise idea is one of the things I think Lester got right--- it ramps one up to the right energy of all the great things Donner did in the first one, before the second one starts. Pity that Thau thought it cheesy to try to restore.... oh well, if that was the worst of it, I'd be happy, though....
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