Some ideas for Superman 2

[Valentine Smith]

Believe it or not, I've never seen a single fan edit, even though my interest is high. Do you guys think there's a way to remove turning back time AND the memory kiss from versions of STM and S2 and still have a coherent narrative? Has somebody already done this?

I've always felt that S2 should end with Lois knowing EVERYTHING. It's just such a ballsy way to end it.

[crazy_asian_man]

Believe it or not, I've never seen a single fan edit, even though my interest is high. Do you guys think there's a way to remove turning back time AND the memory kiss from versions of STM and S2 and still have a coherent narrative? Has somebody already done this?

I've always felt that S2 should end with Lois knowing EVERYTHING. It's just such a ballsy way to end it.

To me, fan edits have been extremely fascinating to me- I've ONLY seen the SII fan edits, but each one has been an interesting eye-opener, with varying degrees of technical quality.

The idea of removing time-travel AND memory kiss from STM and S2 would probably raise up the 'reality-level' of the Superman films by doing so-

But if someone went with ending with Lois knowing everything--- (which works for me)- then I'd probably follow that right up with the opening of the LC- that Clark's looking for Lois- (showing off-camera that she's already put herself together)- and ending with the shirt-rip/alleyway change- cut to black card that says: "Coming Soon: Superman III".

Otherwise, that one (great) shot of the camera pulling back on sad Lois is a bit of a downer for THE end of a Superman film. (Plus, it would make Superman look a bit sadistic if that scene were immediately followed by Supes' flight over the earth & smiling at the camera. )

[Knight]

Nov 22, 2010 18:30:43 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Yea,the idea of ALL the DP staff not noticing Clark jump from the window because they were watching the TV,what?- na,never liked that.

The alley reveal works excellently,espc as Clark steps from the DP onto the street and can still hear Lex,brilliant.

It bugged me for ages how can I use that change scene in I or II,answer was right in front of me all along.

But...um....unless memory is wrong, isn't he wearing a different color suit in that scene from STM than the alleyway change?

(If so, don't get me wrong- totally ok, it's your cut- my own has TONS of continuity glitches throughout--- but just wanted to give a heads up, if that was a biggie or not. I should have mentioned that it was meant as that, not as a criticism...)

Indeed he is wearing a grey suit in STM and a navy colour in SII.

I worked away out of that...

Loop Clark knocking at PW's door,and 'have you seen Lois around anywhere around,today?' over that scene were the camera pans up from street level to the DP. Cuts into SII Clark is stood before PW 'Look at this dispatch..etc' 'Gee,Mr White,that's terrible' -reaction shot from PW...

Dogs cry/alley slow footage down with normal time Lex v/o.

close up of Clark (tight head shot) Lex v/o (PW's dialogue in background also 'who is he,where did he get that suit')

cut back to Perry sat over his desk,with his back to Clark...

use close up head shot of Clark again (slowed down a touch) with normal time Lex v/o,then Clark folds away his note pad and pen,steps out of office...

Something like that is what I figured out. So we never see the grey suit at all.

[TylerDurden389]

I'm sorry but I'm having trouble visualizing this. I look forward to seeing what you've done.

[Knight]

I'm just drafting it out at the moment,may not work as I have seen but al give it a good go!

[Knight]

Just finished cutting the de-powering scene.

I originaly wanted to use Lester's footage with looped Brando speech. But,alas I opted for a edited DC scene with reaction shots from Lois, LC.

EXT. FOS, V/O: My son,I have tried to anticipate your every question. This is one...

INT. FOS, Lois in he gown V/O ...I hoped you...
INT. FOS Long shot of Superman in his white shirt and black pants
...would not ask.

Superman (looped V/O same shot) I have to because she is everything I want in life.

Jor-El: Yours is a higher happiness...(full line etc)
Superman: Is there no way,then,father? Must I finally be denied the one thing in life I truly desire?
Jor-El: If you will live as one of them,love their kind as one of them,then it follows,you must...become one of them.

(here,Jor-El doesn't fade out,as he does in DC. I saved that fade for later on...)

reaction from Lois,LC

medium shot of Superman

Jor-El appears to the left of Superman: This crystal chamber has in it the rays of the red krypton sun. Once exposed to them,all your great powers on earth will disappear,forever.

Superman goes to turn away.

Jor-El: Think Kal-El,I beg you.

Superman: Father,I lover her (LC loop line and music...)

Lois closes her eyes.

Superman turns away form his Father,he flys down to the chamber. Jor-El looks son, cut to a,shot of Lois watching. Superman turns back from looking at Jor-El and Lois...

He steps into the chamber,looks over his shoulder.

Cut to: head and shoulder shot of Superman in chamber from LC,the suit is not visible. (thankfully) Superman looses power as in LC.

Lois reacts,the control structure explodes.

Jor-El fades out (this is from the first time he fades out earlier on in the scene) not with the coloured background.


End of scene.


This,of course is THEE key scene in the film.

It took me ages to cut,going back and fourth between both films. Cutting lines,scenes and sound. Anyway,I'm happy with it,quite pleased with what I done. It's tight,it flows well and it works.

[Kamdan]

Lets see it on YouTube!

[TylerDurden389]

At first I was gonna say the scene is too short now because you've eliminated so much of the initial dialogue, but then I remember that most people agree here that the Lester version of this scene is far superior to the Donner version, and the Lester scene is far shorter in terms of dialogue.

[Knight]

Lester's is better,shorter and gets to the point. Better performance by Reeve (mainly 'I love her') and better music. Donner's, while it's good.it's too long. The use of Lois in the Superman shirt is a great idea,but it's wasted in TDC with those awful long shots. I want close ups ala LC.

Theres a shot of Margo in the extras disc in the Superman top which is unusable.

So,I opted for Donner's footage with the 'tone' of Lester's. I think however,Reeve looks excellent in Donner's scene. It would have been remiss to not use that footage.

I'm not very savy with technology and I don't have the slightest how to put it on youtube to share with you.

[crazy_asian_man]

Lester's is better,shorter and gets to the point. Better performance by Reeve (mainly 'I love her') and better music. Donner's, while it's good.it's too long. The use of Lois in the Superman shirt is a great idea,but it's wasted in TDC with those awful long shots. I want close ups ala LC.

Lester's I think feels better because he was able to 'bookend' the scenes under his direction.... whereas it looks like Donner was not around to be able to shape or shoot the other Lois/Supes scenes in the FOS.

Also, MUSIC definitely helps a lot. (And Susannah York is a great presence on her own) Without an original score for SII under the RDC, it suffers a lot all over the place for that aspect alone.

What is odd, though, is why the close-ups of Lois weren't shot when they had the chance, and had to settle for (presumably a double's) long shot of Lois. We see a costume test in the documentary & we also see photos in Capedwonder of Margot Kidder standing on the sidelines during the explosions.

Though, EVEN MORE odd is that the world can find a way to restoring Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis' (from the 30's!) yet can't have a real way to restore Donner's version of SII properly (from the 70's). *sigh*

Again....fan cuts as the last hope.... (since WB isn't making more official recuts as far as we know)

[TylerDurden389]

I think the Donner Cut simply falls short due to, once again, the editing. The fan cuts have proved it. Those long shots of silence during the depowering scene where no one says anything is painful to watch. Speaking of bad editing, I just re-watched my latest draft (number 7) and while I cut it I realized yet another thing Thau screwed up on. The Metro Battle Aftermath in Lester's version has the sounds of sirens and people chattering outside the broken windows. Whereas the Donner Cut has Nada. Nothing but the spoken lines, aka: the only sound we hear is whatever was being recorded for sound. You have to hand it to Lester, he may have failed in many other aspects, but at least he made sure the sound for scene was complete by getting those b.g sounds in. I didn't notice this until halfway editing through the scene, as I wanted to get more of Hackman's Lester and RIC cut reactions (I prefer him reading the lines faster). Again, theatrical version takes of Donner footage is almost always superior to the alternate takes in the DC. To be fair, I do see where Thau where was going by trying to give us "a completely new viewing experience", however, these DC alternate takes should've been left as deleted scenes (if that).

[crazy_asian_man]

Whereas the Donner Cut has Nada. Nothing but the spoken lines, aka: the only sound we hear is whatever was being recorded for sound. You have to hand it to Lester, he may have failed in many other aspects, but at least he made sure the sound for scene was complete by getting those b.g sounds in.

I wouldn't be at all suprised if budget had something to do with the underwhelming sound design (or, rather, lack of!) for the RDC.

If time/money were too little for Thau to complete everything the way they should have---

Then, I mainly blame Thau for not using better use of the limited resources- and making a far worse job at cutting than what existed in the IRC (best representative so far of the Donner material, despite its flaws).

It seems like every other movie out there gets second and third official cuts (if not more). Why can't SII have another stab at it? *sigh*

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 29, 2010 12:25:13 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

It seems like every other movie out there gets second and third official cuts (if not more). Why can't SII have another stab at it? *sigh*

I'm not normally an optimistic person, but I have a STRONG feeling that the Selutron interview portion where Sel told Jim that "Warner's said they weren't interested at this time" means they WILL be interested when the new Superman movie comes out. Now, I know, I know. "Not interested at this time" means "never" 99.999999% of the time when a proposal is...proposed lol. However, since someone at Warners HAS to be checking this board (and hopefully capedwonder as well), and Sel has gone through all this trouble and they've seen what he can do, I sincerely believe that WB WILL give this film another chance. I just hope they're smart about it this time. And by smart, I don't even mean give Sel a job (though that'd be a plus). I mean, if they're gonna do it on a shoestring budget, they should HEAR OUR OPINIONS.

I'm also a member of the message board "Stallonezone.com" I can assure you all, that Sylvester Stallone DOES check the board (or maybe his reps do), and he listen to our opinions. Anyone here who follows him, if you remember, Sly was thinking of casting rapper 50 cent in his film, and a few days later he decided not to. That was because everyone on that board (myself included) talked about how it was a bad idea. Not only that, but as much as we all loved "The Expendables", we all hated the CGI blood in the film. Sly has said that for the dvd, he has gone back and "cleaned it up" to make the CGI blood less obvious. There's even gonna be a Director's Cut next year. Sorta like how George Lucas lowered the volume level of James Earl Jones' voice at the end of Episode 3 when he shouts the infamous 'NOOOOO!!!!". I saw Ep 3 in theaters, and when I saw it on cable later on, I could easily tell that Lucas lowered his scream. Same goes for the Mitochlorians in the blood from episode one. Fans hated it, and it was never mentioned in eps 2 and 3, not to mention Jar Jar Binks being heavily toned down for eps 2 and 3.

My point to all this, is that if George Lucas listen to his fans (to a degree), and Stallone listens to his fans, then WB should as well. As far as money is concerned, they should simply do a small run of this third official version. No more than 5000 copies worldwide. 3,000 if they wanna play it safe. Then, if the demand gets high enough, if casual moviegoers hear about it, and they see it, and they want to buy it, then WB can put more money into making more copies because they know they'll make that money back.

[joey m]

If they do another version, the budget will be SO low, lower than whatever Thau had, we should keep that in mind if they do start paying attention to the suggestions. The home video world has no money for anything right now, and that won't change between now and the new movie coming out. (Although to me, the best thing for the budget AND the quality of the Donner cut would have been to start with the finished Lester version and work backwards.)

[crazy_asian_man]

If rotoscoping is part of the budget for a Selutron version, I'd be more than happy to send Selutron the files for him for free to improve upon for an official cut (possibly cutting down on roto hours charged?), provided he wants a roto-filled SII....

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 29, 2010 22:15:39 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

If rotoscoping is part of the budget for a Selutron version, I'd be more than happy to send Selutron the files for him for free to improve upon for an official cut (possibly cutting down on roto hours charged?), provided he wants a roto-filled SII....

Even though we all know where Sel stands on the topic of fan cuts, I really think he should listen to a few of our ideas. Maybe if they do approach Sel sometime in the future, we should start a thread here where we discuss ALL aspects of the film, which scenes work best, which plot point works, which jokes don't work, etc... This way, even if we can't all agree on a definitive version since at this point it would be impossible (even if Sel gets his chance), we can at least all come to a sort of mutual understanding and have a version that we can all agree is better than the 2 official versions available now. Then we send the "list" to either Sel, or Jim at capedwonder (possibly even send the list to WB. If Sel won't hear us out, maybe they will).

[crazy_asian_man]

Even though we all know where Sel stands on the topic of fan cuts, I really think he should listen to a few of our ideas. Maybe if they do approach Sel sometime in the future, we should start a thread here where we discuss ALL aspects of the film, which scenes work best, which plot point works, which jokes don't work, etc... This way, even if we can't all agree on a definitive version since at this point it would be impossible (even if Sel gets his chance), we can at least all come to a sort of mutual understanding and have a version that we can all agree is better than the 2 official versions available now. Then we send the "list" to either Sel, or Jim at capedwonder (possibly even send the list to WB. If Sel won't hear us out, maybe they will).

Sadly, most editors I've encountered (not just Supe II editors)- can be pretty myopic, when it comes to cutting--- and only see their view.... which is ok, but when Selutron wants to sell his officially (?) to WB to sell to us, WE are the customers, I would think that WB would want to hear what we have to say, so long as we are buying these dvds & willing to spend the extra penny.

I will probably forever be greatful that WB did that beautiful (and unexpected) dvd metal box collection.....but of course (as I mentioned on the other thread) a whole other wish list (IRC versions of STM and SII + new extended cut of SII, fixing the RDC flaws)- but, I guess we'll see, I assume depending on how much profit the box set generated to begin with to influence them to do so....

Back to Selutron (Where does that name come from anyhow? "Sell you electronics?" or "Sell you Tron, my old videogame" ) - glad that he apparently listened to the onslaught of negative feedback for his opening with the kids' voice for SII - and took it down when he had a youtube account......but otherwise...... I dunno...... I'm not yet convinced that Selutron should be the only one holding the keys to the car, if we use that metaphor for a last return to SII....

I can't blame Donner for wanting to wash his hands of it, at this point, but without Donner's blessings..... why would WB be willing to upset him? Like it was mentioned in another thread, doing 'special editions' without the original director's approval is something WB may not want to engage in....

Anyone have Donner's telephone number, so we can ask him what he thinks?

[TylerDurden389]

Nov 30, 2010 14:12:33 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Anyone have Donner's telephone number, so we can ask him what he thinks?

Man, getting Donner to hear what we think of the Donner Cut, and telling him how we don't blame him, we blame Thau and WB's restricted budget would be great. If he knew what we thought, as well as seen what we've accomplished through fan cuts of our own, I think he'd want to talk to WB about giving it another try. Then again, we've never heard Donner's thoughts on Selutron (assuming Mank told Donner about him).

As for editors wanting to stick to their own views, I am just as guilty as the rest of them. Considering my way of getting into making my own fan cut was because no fan cut satisfied me lol.

[crazy_asian_man]

Yesterday at 3:12pm, crazy_asian_man wrote:
Anyone have Donner's telephone number, so we can ask him what he thinks?

Man, getting Donner to hear what we think of the Donner Cut, and telling him how we don't blame him, we blame Thau and WB's restricted budget would be great. If he knew what we thought, as well as seen what we've accomplished through fan cuts of our own, I think he'd want to talk to WB about giving it another try. Then again, we've never heard Donner's thoughts on Selutron (assuming Mank told Donner about him).

As for editors wanting to stick to their own views, I am just as guilty as the rest of them. Considering my way of getting into making my own fan cut was because no fan cut satisfied me lol.

After roughing through the Donner biography- I get the sense that Donner is a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve- which is a positive and a minus, in general.

If Thau was the 'only' guy in the right place at the right time in the right spot- to get the Donner Cut greenlit and done..... then I can only imagine that he might be the only one in the right place to be able to campaign for it again---- IF the profits were/ are encouraging enough for WB to re-enter that well again.

Unfortunately, it's Thau's bad choices that drove us all to fan cuts in the first place.....*sigh*

[atp]

Dec 1, 2010 0:16:02 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Man, getting Donner to hear what we think of the Donner Cut, and telling him how we don't blame him, we blame Thau and WB's restricted budget would be great.

Actually, I think Donner (and Mankiewicz) made Mr Thau's job harder. I'm of the opinion that they interfered too much and caused some of the "poor choices." If Mr. Thau was allowed to simply do his job, without all the anti-Lester baggage and the "Lois should never kiss Clark" crap, the film would probably have been better.

[TylerDurden389]

Dec 1, 2010 12:48:26 GMT -5 atp said:

Actually, I think Donner (and Mankiewicz) made Mr Thau's job harder. I'm of the opinion that they interfered too much and caused some of the "poor choices." If Mr. Thau was allowed to simply do his job, without all the anti-Lester baggage and the "Lois should never kiss Clark" crap, the film would probably have been better.

I never thought it'd be possible, but I happen to agree with you 100%. However, Donner and Mank didn't tell Thau to repeat 3 frames of footage when the helicopter crashes into the barn after Ursa blows her kiss. I swear, you notice something like that and you think the disc is skipping lol. To be honest, before even getting in touch with Donner (since we've already covered how he feels about it), I would REALLY love for Thau to get onto this board so we could all discuss with him the editing choices from start to finish. If he came here and talked honestly, I'd be more than respective if he told me why he made the editing choices he did. I know I may come off as an "Thau hater" when the subject gets brought up, but in all seriousness I would love nothing more than to sit down with him and go over the film from beginning to end. If I could get a better understanding of his editing choices, I'd be a lot less apprehensive.

The reason i get so upset is, this movie, as well as STM hold a very special place in my heart. I grew up on these films. I can't just "let it be". And as an editor who's proven that he can do a better job, I feel it's only fair that people have the best version of S2 possible. I don't know if anyone here checks the imdb message broads, but since the Donner Cut has been released, people actually like the theatrical version MORE. Some of us here are guilty of it as well, considering that all we really wanted from the Donner Cut was the RIC version with Brando's scenes put back in (though I understand some of you prefer Susannah instead).

[Knight]

It got to the point when I couldn't watch the Lester edition any more. In some ways now,I appreciate the film a lot. It is indeed,very 'theatrical', bold music, bolder/harsher lightening. TDC it seems is a lot more subtler,music and lightening wise.

But both are guilty with poor editing choices which we are all aware of here.

I'm still DL the IRC of II and I'm really intrigued to watch it,scratch that-can't wait to! If the ultimate II is the IRC with Jor-El then it's going to be interesting.

I doubt we'll get a final cut,I hope so but can't see it.

[joey m]

Maybe we shouldn't pin our hopes on the new movie getting anything jumpstarted. They may decide to go the complete opposite direction and distance that whole thing from all previous Supermans. (At this point I'd be happy just to get a decent blu-ray of the theatrical version, maybe with the main Donner stuff from the ABC version as an option. I can't keep pining away for this movie much longer, I'm getting embarrassed here man!)

[TylerDurden389]

Well, to be fair, I think the reason we all seem to favor the RIC is because that's the one most of us grew up on. Granted for me it was the ABC tv cut, which is only about 2 minutes shorter. The only thing of real significance that was new to me upon seeing the RIC was Superman saying "Blast off" in the deleted arctic patrol scene. The abc cut after Lex says "Let's negotiate, FIVE PERCENT!!".

As for stuff in the RIC that isn't in either official version:

01. The Concorde scene (deleted S1 footage)

02. A bit more dialogue between Clark and Lois while she's squeezing Orange Juice. Clark: "Why don't you get one of those automatic ones?" (referring to the juicer). Lois: "Don't you know there's an energy crisis?" Probably referring to the blackout NY had the year before.

03. Some more Lex and Otis dialogue in prison (even more than what the DC put back in). After Otis asks "to ski?" Lex says "Otis, you're brain defies, any scientific loss, and it's infinite capacity to deteriorate". For the line about the little black box and alpha waves, note that the take used is different. I believe there is a total of 3 takes for this scene, one for each version.

04. A bit more dialogue between the 2 men working at Nasa when they lose contact. Some has been restored in the DC. When the bearded one says he was back in hiigh school, the older one says "You're looking rather old for your age."" The young guy gives him a dismissive look. They continue to stare at the small screens. The the older one says "Well it looks like a normal electrical interference". THEN it cuts to "Alright, which one of you guys is using the hairdryer?" THEN it cuts to the older guy smiling.

05. After Zod says "Finally, to rule" and looks up, he looks to his right to Ursa and says "And you will have everything you want." She stands up excited. "Men. To KILL!!". They all turn to face the Earth. Zod; "And I WILL LEAD!!'. They fly away. I think CAM may have inserted this shot back into his cut. In my cut I put the dialogue back in so that they say it while they're flying away.

06. The extended escape scene that appears in the DC is here but the sound effects are a little different. When Lex grabs Otis around the corner, Otis says rather loudly "Mr Luthor? EEEEEEEE!!! Thau removed this line of dialogue and added a "whoosh" sound effect, but I put the RIC dialogue back in for my cut.

07. Before we see Lois and Clark outside the Falls, we see chinese tourists taking photographs, as well as a guy pulling film out of his camera and stuffing it in his pocket.

08. After Superman turns back to Clark, instead of just taking the hot-dogs like he does in both versions, he actually stops short, snaps his fingers, and puts a dollar onto a toothpick, then grabs the hot-dogs, and adjusts his tie while smiling coyly.

09. There's no transition shots of Lex and Eve getting off the snowmobile. Here we see them reach the water's edge, Lex gets out, and Eve asking for help. Lex helps her off the snowmobile.

10. The RIC has a different take of the Lex dialogue from the DC. It's a closer shot (face close-up). Lex gives pretty much the same speech, though he speaks faster. Lara is distinct in the b.g. The toilet joke is still there, but no flush sound.

11. After Clark's identity is revealed, the RIC re-hashed the footage of Superman and Lois flying at night from STM after Lois says "Maybe you should to".

12. The infamous scene of the boy being killed by Non is slightly different than the deleted scene on the dvd. First there's the shot of the boy running away and getting on the horse. He says "Come baby (or whatever the horse's name is). We have to get some help." When Zod snaps his fingers there's a moment where Non thinks about it, looking somewhat sad about what he's about to do. A shot of Dwayne looking scared, THEN Non throws it. Also worth noting is that the music is different after the kill, and the woman and Ursa's voices are different as well (different line readings I guess).

13. News coverage of the villains is showed in people's homes. This is the closest Lester got to "Villains rule the world scene". However, it's an annoying middle-aged woman in hair curlers, robe and slippers yelling at her husband that they took off the football game. The next is a Japanese man complaining about the violence on television (before yelling loudly as he chops a fish in half as he prepares dinner), followed by his little daughter telling him to shut up in rather broken english.

*The Souffle scene has different music here than the deleted scene. Different sound effect for the eye beams to.

14. When the villains take over the White House there's a shot of a soldier bringing out a few dobermans barking loudly. Non growls at them, and the dogs whimper off camera. There's also a shot of a man on the phone saying "Don't worry, no one is gonna get through here" and a guy bursts in through the wall (the one Non threw through he wall). There's also a few more shots of Zod firing the gun. As well as the infamous shot of the bullets shooting the portrait of Richard Nixon.

15. When Clark and Lois are driving back, the shot of them driving through the snow is a lot longer. There's another shot of the car riving through the snow. It's a very wide shot high up in the sky that pans up to show the mountains in the b.g. This is one shot I wish the DC had, as it gives us a sense of scale and location.

16. There's another long shot of Clark walking to the fortress.

17. When Zod says "We shall bring him to his knees" There's a shot of Ursa and Non. Ursa says "Praying!!" and Zod adds "Yes, to me!!". THEN Lex stops them from leaving. Also, before Lex lights his cigar, he stares at himself in the mirror for a good 20 seconds, looks at his cigar, sniffs it and says 'Ahh, Havana."

18. When Jimmy takes pictures of Non, he grunts a lot more (like a dog). When Non breaks Jimmy's camera, Jimmy attempts to bite Non's fingers, to no avail. Non looks away as Jimmy says "Gosh darn it, that's my brand new camera!!" Non turns back to him with a look on his face like "Are you serious?"

19. There's a quick alternate shot (and different line reading) for when Zod asks "This, is the son of Jor-el?"

20. When Non approaches Lex and Lex stops him, instead of saying "You oughta have that fixed" he claps his hands quickly and says "Australia, it's Australia. It's too much right? Ok, forget it. I can turn over a new leaf. Uh, uh, a tree, a whole forest."

21. After the villains jump out the window, there's another Donner shot of the people at the Planet approaching the window, as well as Jimmy asking Perry if he's ok.

22. After Zod calls Superman a fool, Superman shakes his head and quips back "Somehow I just can't hear you Zod".

23. After the cabbie says "Man this is gonna be good" A Donner shot of Jimmy asking Perry for another camera, and Perry says "No but there's a cup of coffee in there" and points outside the room. Lois tells Jimmy to go get Perry the coffee. Lex stares at Jimmy from atop the file cabinet as Jimmy walks past him.

24. When Non is chasing Superman through the buildings, Zod gets a little excited and shouts "Kill him. KIIIILLLL HIIIIMMMM!!!" The shots of Non chasing Supes are CLEARLY miniature figures. Glad Lester knew to axe these shots later on.

25. After Lex takes the coffee from Jimmy and says "Chief's got it" Jimmy walks away and mutters 'Should've spiked it".

26. In the RIC, the Lex voice double says the line "Never thought this thing would go the distance". I actually think he says it better than Hackman did. He says it more affirmative, rather than curiously.

27. 2 more Donner shots of the villains flying back to Perry's office after Superman leaves.

28. The Donner dialogue lines are different readings (Zod's voice is Lester dubs due to his lower pitch voice). "Our victory is complete", "Three against one", "Fled in fear of us", "Next time we will kill him", "What more you want?" "Cuba". Lester shot some of these lines as well, but later axed them.

29. After "I expect better manners...etc" Lois shouts "Superman, this wasn't my idea!!" Zod cuts her off "Accept your destiny Kal-el (he shouldn't know his name BTW). As your father once condemned us, so now do we condemn his misbegotten brat!!" THEN Non flies after him and the gets the cellophane S. In this line Stamp's actual voice is heard. No low-pitch dub.

30. After Non gets hit with it, Ursa looks puzzled and asks "General?" and Zod says "We must combine our energy" also in Stamp's actual voice, no dub.

31. Zod's speech about Superman being his slave is the same words as theatrical, but again, it's Stamp's actual voice. The way he says the speech is VERY different than how he inflects certain words in the theatrical dub. He almost sounds like a talking snake in a Disney cartoon when he says "Defiance". After "defiance" he says "Beginning with uh, this one" and waves his hand towards Lois in a rather "off the cuff" fashion (as if he's "shoo-ing" her away rather comically) Then he says "I sense the presence of Jorel here, destroy this place", again, no low pitch-dub.

32. The "Him. Him? Me?" Lex scene is here, but it's a different take than the one used in the DC. The camera angle is the same as "Me? Lex Luthor?" close-up of Lex. Then a different take for "I helped you through the tough times REMEMBER? I filled your inside strength!!!". Lex says it much faster and assertive, rather than pleading and begging like in the DC. In my cut I dubbed Hackman with his own voice to get some of this back in.

33. Added dialogue between Lex and Supes. "Promises were made, gifts exchanged." Superman walks to the side, thinking. Lex: "I don't know what to think anymore." He walks over to Superman. Lex: "Hey you know, It's not like the old days when it was just, you and me". Superman continues to ignore him. "Hey hey, i gotta hand it to you...etc". Then after "guy always knew where he stood with you" Lex continues on "You were totally honest. You wanted to destroy me. It was pure and simple. I respected you for that". Superman still looks around, looking at the chamber, then looks at Lex. Supes pats him on the arm. "Well, perhaps there is some good in you after all Lex Luthor". Lex laughs. "I'm telling ya I'm full of good. I've never used any of it." Supes: "Alright. I'm just gonna have to take that chance. Now, hmm. Try to get them all...etc"

34. The shot of Supes trying to grab Lex is there, but it's all a different take. Zod says "Seize him" but we see him nod his head to Non. "Ursa" doesn't sound like Stamp at all. and 'Kill her" is a different reading, even though it's the same take as the DC. Then a slightly different take of Superman saying "Alright alright, leave her alone Zod. You win". Then a different camera angle of Non tossing Supes aside. Then a different take of Zod nodding his head at Ursa so that she'll loosen her choke grip on Lois.

35. Probably my favorite shot in this version. When Supes and Lois land away from the fortress, the RIC uses a closer medium shot of them in center frame, rather than the DC shot that is further back and behind them. It's probably the same take as the DC, but Donner must've had 2 camera's filming.

36. When Supes uses his heat vision to destroy the fortress, we see no eye beams, and we hear a weird sound effect similar to the sound when he is being depowered. As a kid when I watched this I thought he was using the same "eye power" to repair the great wall of China, except here he's destroying walls rather than rebuilding them lol. No shot of the fortress disappearing.

37. Completely different line readings of the dialogue here, as well as a sadder version of the love theme playing in the b.g (at first). New dialogue not in the DC: "I mean I'd be buying my, my own little rainbow at the expense of all those people who go 'help, come quick!!'. You think I don't understand that? I mean it's, it's the old eternal triangle. Only uh...only in this case I, I have, all of humanity waiting in the next room." and she laughs. Then the dialogue plays out as normal. The music gets more upbeat here as she says how she feels (it's actually the same music when Clark reveals his identity during the pink bear scene). Kidder also says the lines in a more positive, accepting manner. This version almost makes the scene completely different. It's so much more positive in tone that I would think that for anyone doing a fan cut where Lois will know his secret in the end, they should use this portion in stead of the DC (assuming you could roto the new Lois shots into the DC footage as CAM has attempted in earlier drafts of his cut). The balcony scene has different Lois line readings than the DC, and it uses the music from when Clark and Lois approach the bed in the fortress. Lois also says "You don't have to worry, your secret's safe with me-I'm not gonna tell ANYONE who you really are". Again, this works MUCH better for a fan cut ending where Lois knows his secret. You almost don't even NEED the amnesia kiss or time travel ending (save for her tears).

Whew. That took a while lol. If I missed anything someone will point it out lol.

[TylerDurden389]

Dec 2, 2010 0:20:52 GMT -5 joey m said:

At this point I'd be happy just to get a decent blu-ray of the theatrical version

I have the HD version of S2. It only points out the flaws more. After my last fan cut draft where I improved the color, hue, saturation, contrast, and brightness for all theatrical scenes I use, I swear the difference is night and day. Now when I re-watch theatrical scenes I almost feel like the movie was filmed in black and white lol.

I haven't released this draft, as I have more big ideas coming (as discussed earlier). But if anyone wants some side by side screen-shot comparisons I'll post them up.