|
|
Post by supes78 on Jun 18, 2011 17:37:54 GMT -5
Not to retread, but Seb only does the manips because there are so many people who have done custom likenesses of Reeve with varying degrees of success that he probably wants to show what tweaks could make it spot-on. Maybe it's not necessary but the intent is not malicious.
As for your statue, as someone else stated, it's probably the best life-sized Reeve statue to date. I just wish we could see more pics of it from different angles so I can really take it all in.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikehill on Jun 18, 2011 18:06:59 GMT -5
Not to retread, but Seb only does the manips because there are so many people who have done custom likenesses of Reeve with varying degrees of success that he probably wants to show what tweaks could make it spot-on. Maybe it's not necessary but the intent is not malicious. As for your statue, as someone else stated, it's probably the best life-sized Reeve statue to date. I just wish we could see more pics of it from different angles so I can really take it all in. Once more ,malicious intent or not,its not cool. And he has no right. Also what you or he thinks is 'spot-on' doesn't mean I agree. Heres the whole story. If it isn't for malicious intent then why do it? Just to show us a photo of Superman? Why use my statue to create a picture? Why? There is only one reason to show (in his opinion) what would make it better. And if thats the case,whats the purpose? Again stating that he has done manips on others peoples work doesn't make it right. Did those people ask him? So lets say a person sculpts a 1/4 scale Reeve,hes really proud and wants to sell a couple to superman collectors. He puts the pics on line,gets some good reviews and potential customers. Up comes Sebastian with his clone tool and changes the likeness.Maybe for the better. Guess what? All those potential clients are now disappointed so they dint order. One guy spends months doing his best work,then Sebastian in a couple of hours potentially ruins his effort. I find that sad. And guess what?It doesn't prove shit. Altering a single pic is no reflection on the quality or likeness of a 3D figure. Its asinine. And here we still are ,and he still has not had the decency to remove the pic. And I emailed him privately. That sound like an unassuming nice guy? I appreciate your comment Super78. But please see it from my POV. I think we should drop the subject..its just going round in circles. On another note.I'm updating my site.I'll post some further pics on there. Mike |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 19, 2011 14:10:53 GMT -5
Hm...
Well, I'll share this- as, just another point of view & reference, I only bring it up because maybe there are comparisons and parallels.
I spent a good amount of money on a fan film- was hoping the world (particularly the fans) would love it, never expecting to make a dime, everyone who donated time to it, did it without pay, too.
The fans shredded it for the most part. Painful, but I accepted it fully after a deep depression for awhile. After all, I thought, if I didn't want it open to criticism, I could have always kept it in my closet & never taken it out.
A year later, I find out on a search by accident that some other sites (that have advertisement) took my fan film that I paid for & directed/etc. and put it on other videosites that have ads, so--- essentially they're making money off of me without my permission.
Slightly miffed- but on the other hand, realized: it's getting more views and more exposure.
If someone came up to me tommorrow and asked if they could change the ending or re-edit it, I would have a few differing thoughts:
#1: if it was Stuart Baird asking, OH YEAH- it's a giant compliment.
#2: if it was a stranger, I'd probably be wary and say that I'd prefer not to, but being the age of the internet, I know full well that it's a different age---- anything put up on the internet can be downloaded, and once it's out there, it can't be really erased, if it's viral.
Anything downloaded can be altered.
So--- I'd be grateful that the stranger asked me- as appropriate--- but in the end, I don't have the will or effort to stop the stranger.
Is it breaking copyright law if they change my fan film?
Yeah.....maybe/probably--- but then again, it's based on characters that I didn't create or design myself to begin with. I didn't write the original comic or design the original costume of the character I based my fan film on.
I attended a 'comic book creator law class', where a licensed attorney at Comicon spoke about how just DRAWING Batman or Superman was violating copyright. If you put down that the character belongs to DC/whatnot, it helps---
My cousin who's in law school also asserts that from what he's learned from law school, that basically anyone can- generally - sue anyone for anything.
I can understand being irritated about not being asked permission to alter the image-
But, at the same time- does the image belong to DC, to Siegel and Shuster, to Donner, to Reeve, whose likeness does Reeve's likeness belong to?
I have a friend who's an artist who draws likenesses of movie stars that aren't QUITE there...... but he still is able to make a good living anyways. In front of his face, they've learned to only say that the likenesses are perfect, but mutual friends have learned that if a likeness is off, never to mention it to that artist friend- because it's a rare artist that can take it, and it may not be useful.... because to the artist it IS the likeness.
I personally find what Sebastian does to various images interesting to 'tweak' Reeve's likeness.
I know artists do have certain rights. But if drawing Superman on a piece of paper is violating DC or the Siegel's rights, where should the line be drawn?
Also, if one made a million photocopies of their work, pasted it around town, and someone took it home and traced it--- would it be reasonable to get upset? The internet has destroyed privacy, and with it- any real right to control it..... lawyers are NOW trying to figuring out internet laws.
Reeve's likeness really belongs to Reeve and his family, to be fair.
Your sculpture is your interpretation- a realistic interpretation, going for realism, so the truth is: people will have their own feelings on what looks like a certain person to them.
I think you should be incredibly proud of your work and secure in it. It's good that you write and communicate directly to Sebastian, but I consider both of you artists in your own ways.
Let's look at it another way: If Reeve were alive today, would he be insulted or flattered that people were fighting over making his face perfect in different ways?
Imo, (and that's what this is ultimately)- yes, you have a right to be upset- but in this day/age of internet- whatever you put up on the net, the second it hits the net - kind of belongs to the world, for good or bad.
I'm not saying that it's necessarily right or wrong, but that's certainly how it is, with technology.
Hopefully you & Sebastian can square it out. I will only say I enjoy both of your works.
|
|
heman
New Member
Posts: 53
|
Post by heman on Jun 19, 2011 22:27:31 GMT -5
This whole debate is getting ridiculous and out of context. Your spliting hairs here with all these situations.
Yes, you are right, that once something hits the internet its up for anything with the general population. I get that, Mike gets that and so does bobby, howard to mention a few. BUT......................... among the collectors and more specifically the artists world who create these amazing sculptures this manipulation almost never happens and should never happen. And if it does, wheather it improves it or not is extremely disrespectful to the artist.
You would NEVER, and I repeat NEVER see Bob Causey manipulationg Mikes work or Howards OR Sebastians work. You would never see Mike or Howard or Steve Wang do it to Jordan Schnell. So far Sebastian has done it to Bobby and Mike and Hot toys and I think CM. And while I do like some of the modifications on some of it, THATS NOT THE POINT!!!!
And then when Sebas makes comments after doing his manips that he is doing one and it will be the best in the world, thats dumping on these artists work that he just manipulated.
Im a 1:1 collector and have delt with many of these artists and I can tell you that alot of these guys are friends and aquaintences. Some of them dont like each other BUT they all still have a commom repect for each other and would never dream of doing this. And if your stating that Sebas is an artist and Im sure HE IS, he should know better. Plain and simple!
This is the whole point. Yes Mike would be irratated if just anyone did this, but when Sebas is an artist he should know better.
|
|
|
|
Post by SamH9303 on Jun 20, 2011 4:08:33 GMT -5
+1!
Mike, I think it's important I give you my apologies as although you nor anyone else on the board has mentioned it, I also shared a manip of the image you first posted. I purely did it to show the difference a change in the lighting and camera lens would make to your piece, never to make any criticism on the likeness as it is undoubtedly, CR. I'm a great admirer of your art and I'm sorry I offended you.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 20, 2011 18:34:06 GMT -5
Is this different than what Selutron did with Donner's Superman footage?
|
|
ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
|
Post by ye5man on Jun 20, 2011 18:37:43 GMT -5
Exactly
Nobody gives a fuck when it comes to making fan edits
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 20, 2011 19:42:24 GMT -5
Right. That's my point exactly, which I'm trying to make. If Donner isn't out there pissed off about fan edits to the Donner cut, and takes it in stride, who are we??? Anyhow, moot point. Nobody will ever agree here, and in the end, it won't change anything. Cold facts: * The statue is DONE. Like it, love it, or in-between. * Anyone has the power to change the photograph of it or anything, once it hits the net. * Nobody will be able to change anyone's mind here. Everyone's said their piece. So it goes.  |
|
|
|
Post by mavcon75 on Jun 21, 2011 1:51:48 GMT -5
Hey all, sorry for the delay. When I got back from the Film Festival, real life and bills kicked me square in the junk and I haven't been able to post them up yet. I will probably be doing it Friday night but I wanted to let everyone know I didn't forget about ya guys, especially you Mike...I told you I would post them and (eventually) they will get posted!  Mavcon (jeff) |
|
