hursty
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Post by hursty on Mar 27, 2012 7:12:26 GMT -5
Pacino and Hackman did a movie together called Scarecrow. They did great work. Hackman says its his favorite performance. Never actually seen that one. Haven't seen 'Cruising' either. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 27, 2012 7:14:46 GMT -5
That was a good film, but a strange performance by Pacino. It definitely screams William Friedkin.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 7:17:46 GMT -5
He ate Olivier's corpse with BBQ sauce and an entire jar of Metallo's bitter Haterade as I understand it. Impossible. My haterade would help him burn calories not make him BIGGER whale than he already was. Dull like Brandos output for the last 20 years? Dull like his knife and fork at the end of a meal? Or dull like some of the movies Hackman paychecked? A lot of people would disagree with you. ;D |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 7:22:52 GMT -5
Glad you think you are qualified to speak for the majority of the film going public, I myself am not. But I am safe in the knowledge that Hackman is considered a legend, and Doyle is every inch an iconic movie character. You seem to think you were first. I'm using a few examples while you're just saying sh**. If you think what you say is true use some evidence. I said more iconic not BETTER. Learn to read more carefully, Hurst. Once again you missed the point by a country mile. Callahan has been more influential than Doyle. That doesn't mean there hasn't been a lot of crap. What *ckin proof do you have besides your gums flapping and your fingers typing? Just because YOU think something is more iconic alone doesn't mean its true. Show me something that says otherwise? |
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 27, 2012 7:23:52 GMT -5
Dull like your chronically ill disposition when the conversation doesn't go your way!
;D
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 7:27:00 GMT -5
I don't know what happened to DeNiro. He cashed in around 2000 on his screen image and never looked back. Regarding his acting, there's only a few films I can think of where he's not "DeNero-ish": Raging Bull, Godfather 2 and King of Comedy. Even when he played Frankenstein, he was undeniably Robert De Niro ;D He became a rich old fat f*** like most actors who lost his hunger to prove he had the talent. Why use it when he could live off his reputation? I can't believe the same guy who did Deer Hunter, Taxi Driver,and Godfather 2 is now collecting a paycheck for awful garbage like Meet the Parents I don't think DeNiro has done anything to really blow me away in almost 15 or 20 years. The only thing about Pacino that impresses me now is that ridiculous assed Phil Spector wig he walks around wearing and expecting people to think is his real hair. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 7:33:11 GMT -5
Dull like your chronically ill disposition when the conversation doesn't go your way! ;D dull like your fingernails after jacking off to Brando all night long! ;D Seems like a few people agree with me so how is it not going me way again? |
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hursty
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Post by hursty on Mar 27, 2012 7:48:49 GMT -5
Glad you think you are qualified to speak for the majority of the film going public, I myself am not. But I am safe in the knowledge that Hackman is considered a legend, and Doyle is every inch an iconic movie character. You seem to think you were first. I'm using a few examples while you're just saying sh**. If you think what you say is true use some evidence. I said more iconic not BETTER. Learn to read more carefully, Hurst. Once again you missed the point by a country mile. Callahan has been more influential than Doyle. That doesn't mean there hasn't been a lot of crap. What *ckin proof do you have besides your gums flapping and your fingers typing? Just because YOU think something is more iconic alone doesn't mean its true. Show me something that says otherwise? Mate, it's back and forth. Based on our respective preferences. There is no proof needed, just opinions and I've offered mine. |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 27, 2012 8:07:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I never bought Brando's "greatest ever" hype. The guy was a damn good actor, and in his younger days was ridiculously good looking. But after On The Waterfront, Godfather, and Apocalypse Now, I can't think of much he did that was that great. I'd say that during the period between Mean Streets and Goodfellas, DeNiro was every bit the actor that Brando ever was, before he just started collecting a paycheck to "be DeNiro" in all of his movies. Same thing with Pacino. Pacino was BRILLIANT, perhaps better than both of those guys, in the 70s and early 80s, and then all he's done is yell for the last 25 years. The Men, Streetcar Named Desire, Julius Ceasar, Last Tango in Paris, Reflections in a Goldeneye. Thought those were all great. I liked him in AN a lot too, but don't consider one of my favorite performances . oooh...forgot about Julius Caesar. Good call. What I really meant was, after those films I named, CHRONOLOGICALLY, he didn't do anything else all that great. Other than STM, of course. Anyway, my bad for not being clearer. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 10:09:24 GMT -5
Tallo I think you take movies too seriously sometimes!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2012 11:20:06 GMT -5
;D Exactly. I'm not sure if you were making an argument that kickass actors SHOULD get a free pass or not. (Personally, I don't think they should, but it's not my decision. Joe Pesci at his Academy Awards speech mentioned how there were great actors just as good as him who were still unemployed. I think successful actors can forget that statistically, only 1% can make a living at it--- so he was REALLY grateful just to have work.) Can you imagine if Brando weren't obligated to do anything legally but a voice? But then again..... maybe all the investors needed was to know he was involved for more financing to happen and other name actors to agree to join in. Maybe, though, Brando would have been reduced to a voice on the council and a better actor who actually fit the costume and read the script might have played Jorel.... who knows? ???j Anyhow.... the question of who is a great actor- opens up a wide range of other questions: * Is the better actor one who's more interesting in a role- or the one that is more accurate to the story that's being told? (ie Nicolas Cage's rambling of how different he was going to make his Superman/Clark interpretation or Tommy Lee Jones trying to be louder than Jim Carrey in Batman Forever) *Is the better actor one one who's more subtle or more charismatic? All in the eyes of the beholder, imo... Spacey had a different interpretation than Hackman did for Luthor.... To me, Hackman's Luthor was pure comedy, with an edge of danger. He was a deluded car salesman- and was committed to it. Spacey's Luthor had the burden of trying to emulate Hackman's Luthor- but, to me, it wasn't nearly as sharp an interpretation. Spacey I think is a great actor, but he comes off strongest in the past as someone who keeps secrets close to the vest and a bit of an introvert, who only speaks when he has to. The Donner Luthor had someone who was a bit of a joke because the character was so egotistical, he would often go too far and could go on talking for hours about himself without an audience. Spacey as Luthor was a brilliant idea.....but having Spacey as the Donner interpretation of Luthor (which is what Singer's view was) I didn't think was as strong. Anyhow- end result to me makes Hackman seem a much better fit than Spacey, based on what they were going for. Either Singer should have changed the interpretation to fit Spacey better or gotten a different actor who had that 'used car salesman' feel as well as being able to convey a level of danger. Maybe Michael Caine?  |
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hursty
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Post by hursty on Mar 27, 2012 11:30:25 GMT -5
Hackman's Luthor wasn't comedic, he played off the idiocy of Otis and Eve, but he himself was deadly serious. Sarcastic yes, but always deadly serious about his evil scheme.
Good point about Tommy Lee Jones, outstanding in the Fugitive - but utterly crap in Batman, and quite a few other films.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 12:05:47 GMT -5
Exactly. I'm not sure if you were making an argument that kickass actors SHOULD get a free pass or not. (Personally, I don't think they should, but it's not my decision. Brando got a free pass at Arby's. Isn't that enough?  For such a brilliant actor he sure did let his ego f*ck him up when it came to certain creative decisions. He wanted to screw around with a lot of Coppola's ideas on Apocalypse Now and then when he DID read Heart of Darkness he realized what an idiot he had been. I don't think Brando did much if any truly outstanding work since the 70s. Mate, it's back and forth. Based on our respective preferences. There is no proof needed, just opinions and I've offered mine. There is such a thing as a consensus even with opinions. When MORE people have a certain opinion the argument looks a lot stronger. Eastwood in general has influenced film and film characters for 50 f***ing years. Mad Max is influenced by the works of Eastwood. Snake Plissken is influenced by th works of Eastwood. Russell has ADMITTED this. How the heck is that my opinion when the guys who created the character said so, Hurst? The character of Wolverine was heavily influenced by Eastwood. Every lone wolf rule breaking film cop from John McClane to Martin Riggs owes something to Dirty Harry. The show Sledgehammer was a DIRECT parody of Dirty Harry. Judge Dredd from the UK's 2000 AD comics was based on and a parody of...DIRTY HARRY. Even Stallone tried the same thing with Cobra. Schwarzenegger has admitted that they heavy use of hawkish right wing violence followed by wisecracks was heavily influenced by Eastwood and Dirty Harry. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 12:13:25 GMT -5
;D Exactly. I'm not sure if you were making an argument that kickass actors SHOULD get a free pass or not. (Personally, I don't think they should, but it's not my decision. Joe Pesci at his Academy Awards speech mentioned how there were great actors just as good as him who were still unemployed. I think successful actors can forget that statistically, only 1% can make a living at it--- so he was REALLY grateful just to have work.) Can you imagine if Brando weren't obligated to do anything legally but a voice? But then again..... maybe all the investors needed was to know he was involved for more financing to happen and other name actors to agree to join in. Maybe, though, Brando would have been reduced to a voice on the council and a better actor who actually fit the costume and read the script might have played Jorel.... who knows? ???j Anyhow.... the question of who is a great actor- opens up a wide range of other questions: * Is the better actor one who's more interesting in a role- or the one that is more accurate to the story that's being told? (ie Nicolas Cage's rambling of how different he was going to make his Superman/Clark interpretation or Tommy Lee Jones trying to be louder than Jim Carrey in Batman Forever) *Is the better actor one one who's more subtle or more charismatic? All in the eyes of the beholder, imo... Spacey had a different interpretation than Hackman did for Luthor.... To me, Hackman's Luthor was pure comedy, with an edge of danger. He was a deluded car salesman- and was committed to it. Spacey's Luthor had the burden of trying to emulate Hackman's Luthor- but, to me, it wasn't nearly as sharp an interpretation. Spacey I think is a great actor, but he comes off strongest in the past as someone who keeps secrets close to the vest and a bit of an introvert, who only speaks when he has to. The Donner Luthor had someone who was a bit of a joke because the character was so egotistical, he would often go too far and could go on talking for hours about himself without an audience. Spacey as Luthor was a brilliant idea.....but having Spacey as the Donner interpretation of Luthor (which is what Singer's view was) I didn't think was as strong. Anyhow- end result to me makes Hackman seem a much better fit than Spacey, based on what they were going for. Either Singer should have changed the interpretation to fit Spacey better or gotten a different actor who had that 'used car salesman' feel as well as being able to convey a level of danger. Maybe Michael Caine? STM presented Luthor as a Shyster or a Huckster. SR's mistake was to do the same thing and it looked even worse in 2006. Thats why both versions look terribly hokey and dated in the eyes of some people. Its probably one reason Stamps General Zod is looked on as the more impressive villain as time goes by |
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Post by stargazer01 on Mar 27, 2012 12:23:06 GMT -5
.
In the eyes of fanboys/comicbook fans..
At the end of the day Spacey's Lex was just more sinister than Hackman's Lex. He almost really kills Superman if it wasn't for Jason that saw him drowning. Plus Otis as his henchman was just too silly.
Also, I loved Brando as Jor-El, but his performance wasn't oustanding really. I mean, he basically had the same facial expression all the time. A lot of people could do that. Reeve outacted him, but then he had more material to work with in all fairness.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 12:51:29 GMT -5
In the eyes of a LOT of people Not just comic book fans. Spaceys Luthor had the worst case of schizophrenia I've ever seen. I loved it when he was more deadly and cold hearted but that stupid stuff like giving the kid his wig after cheating the old lady was awfully lame. "Yes kitty...like Sea monkeys"  They should have given Luthor a woman like Mercy Graves instead of a Tessmacher clone. She would have been far more effective and useful in the film. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 27, 2012 13:48:10 GMT -5
Like Hackman in STM
and countless other storylines in the comics, cartoons etc
I saw Hackman as a straight man to Otis but he himself wasn't too comedic, though perhaps a bit tongue in cheek.
Can't blame Spacey, he's a top actor, unfortunately given crap to work with. Hackman had the advantage of great material and direction.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 13:54:34 GMT -5
The way Hackman's Luthor tried to kill Superman was the kind of sh** The Austin Powers films made fun of with Doctor Evil's deathtraps.
Leave him and ASSUME he's finished off. ;D I can never look at that the same way now and not laugh my as off.
Thank God they cut out all that stuff with Luthor and "the babies."
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 27, 2012 14:28:55 GMT -5
The Men, Streetcar Named Desire, Julius Ceasar, Last Tango in Paris, Reflections in a Goldeneye. Thought those were all great. I liked him in AN a lot too, but don't consider one of my favorite performances . oooh...forgot about Julius Caesar. Good call. What I really meant was, after those films I named, CHRONOLOGICALLY, he didn't do anything else all that great. Other than STM, of course. Anyway, my bad for not being clearer. Last Tango was an amazing performance, but the movie isn't for everybody. He all but quit acting the 80s. I didn't see Dry White Season in 1989 but he was given a nomination for the role so I assume he was good in that. He was good in The Freshman and Don Juan DeMarco and I enjoyed watching him share scenes with De Niro in The Score. |
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 27, 2012 14:33:15 GMT -5
The Island of Dr. Moreau - stay away, FAR away. ;D
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 27, 2012 14:38:34 GMT -5
The only reason I don't count The Freshman is because he's sending up a role he already did. That being said, The Freshman is really brilliant!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 14:42:04 GMT -5
The Island of Dr. Moreau - stay away, FAR away. ;D I wish I had. Its terrible. He wasn't bad in The Score but that whole movie was nothing to write home about. With that level of talent involved it could have been amazing. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 27, 2012 17:51:14 GMT -5
The Island of Dr. Moreau - stay away, FAR away. ;D Saw it in the theater. You know, I don't remember being as bad as its reputation. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 27, 2012 20:33:29 GMT -5
Dull like your chronically ill disposition when the conversation doesn't go your way! ;D dull like your fingernails after jacking off to Brando all night long! ;D Seems like a few people agree with me so how is it not going me way again? "Yeah, you're a legend in your own mind." |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2012 20:56:58 GMT -5
Damn right I am. ;D And you and Brando truly have a star crossed love.
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