SIV vs SR

[EnriqueH]

Mar 27, 2012 20:56:58 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Damn right I am. ;D And you and Brando truly have a star crossed love.

Tallo, you're just a frustrated geek with no pussy in his life. Do do yourself a favor, take another sabbatical from this place and get yourself laid.

I'm tired of your bullshit.

[Metallo]

Wow. Somebodies having his time of the month. Sounds to me like your a guy looking for a real problem. You take a joke about an actor you never met THAT seriously?

[EnriqueH]

It's the reaction you were looking for and you know it. Now go cry to momma for a few months or whatever the fuck you do.

[Metallo]

Nah dude. I was actually joking around. You've got some serious hostility issues. You're obviously looking for a fight. I was actually getting along with you but apparently you're butt hurt or something.

[EnriqueH]

Whatever, Tallo.

[Metallo]

I've got no beef with you. You're being an asshole over nothing on this one. If you take horsing around on a message board THAT seriously then you need to take a break.

I'm the one poking fun at myself here while you're being a dick. whats that say?

[EnriqueH]

What's it say? That you need to grab your Optimus Prime action figure and stick it in your ASS.

[Metallo]

Mar 27, 2012 21:51:02 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

What's it say? That you need to grab your Optimus Prime action figure and stick it in your ASS.

No no no. RODimus Prime. I'm THAT hardcore a nerd. Happy? Got it out of your system?

[Deleted]

[hursty]

Mar 27, 2012 12:23:06 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

At the end of the day Spacey's Lex was just more sinister than Hackman's Lex.

No chance.

Also, I loved Brando as Jor-El, but his performance wasn't oustanding really.

Am amazed that anyone can think that.

Brando IS outstanding, he was absolutely magnificent and the Jor-El scenes are my favourite moments in the entire series by some distance.

[hursty]

Mar 27, 2012 12:05:47 GMT -5 Metallo said:

There is such a thing as a consensus even with opinions. When MORE people have a certain opinion the argument looks a lot stronger. Eastwood in general has influenced film and film characters for 50 f***ing years. Mad Max is influenced by the works of Eastwood. Snake Plissken is influenced by th works of Eastwood. Russell has ADMITTED this. How the heck is that my opinion when the guys who created the character said so, Hurst? The character of Wolverine was heavily influenced by Eastwood.

I've always been happy to take on the majority, standards are nowhere near what they used to be, I live in a world where an idiot like Harry Hill is branded a comedy genius.

I beleive Hackman to be one of the very best actors Hollywood has produced and that his role of Popeye Doyle is fairly iconic, a role that won the academy award. I'm not dissing Eastwood or his contribution to film, find the post that I have...

Dirty Harry probably is more well known due to the oft parodied lines of dialogue and silly sequels. But that doesn't weaken Doyle's standing as a legendary movie figure.

It wasn't me who suggested this character was this or that, I am just saying Doyle pretty damn iconic.

[ye5man]

Brando's monologue to the baby is perfect. If you try to drown out the music, you can hear his line delivery is bang on. That scene alone justifies him to me.

Poor Routh came off amateur hour with his nasally tone, reciting those lines while we're all thinking of Brando ;D

Don't worry Routh, how many could compare?

[Metallo]

Mar 28, 2012 5:22:53 GMT -5 hursty said:

I've always been happy to take on the majority, standards are nowhere near what they used to be, I live in a world where an idiot like Harry Hill is branded a comedy genius.

Except these standards go back 30 or 40 years. Its not like they suddenly changed to the lowered standards we have now.

I believe Hackman to be one of the very best actors Hollywood has produced and that his role of Popeye Doyle is fairly iconic, a role that won the academy award. I'm not dissing Eastwood or his contribution to film, find the post that I have...

Dirty Harry probably is more well known due to the oft parodied lines of dialogue and silly sequels. But that doesn't weaken Doyle's standing as a legendary movie figure.

It wasn't me who suggested this character was this or that, I am just saying Doyle pretty damn iconic.

I never said Popeye Doyle wasn't an iconic film character or that Hackman wasn't a great actor but Dirty Harry has had a much greater clearer influence than Doyle. Than most similar characters really.

Mar 28, 2012 5:15:08 GMT -5 hursty said:

No chance.

They're both pretty pretty silly. Give my Stamps Zod any day. Hackmans Luthor was better because the (re) writing was sharper.

Mar 28, 2012 0:43:54 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Its like trying to win the Special Olympics...only some of us are more special ed than others.

[Metallo]

Mar 28, 2012 6:28:11 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Brando's monologue to the baby is perfect. If you try to drown out the music, you can hear his line delivery is bang on. That scene alone justifies him to me.

Poor Routh came off amateur hour with his nasally tone, reciting those lines while we're all thinking of Brando ;D

Don't worry Routh, how many could compare?

He's always got Tom Welling and Smallvilles even more watered down "homages" to STM to feel sorry for.

[hursty]

Mar 28, 2012 6:28:11 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Brando's monologue to the baby is perfect. If you try to drown out the music, you can hear his line delivery is bang on. That scene alone justifies him to me.

Absolutely, even the most hard-hearted will have a lump in their throat. Brando was flawless in this movie. whatever his difficulties were on set, however unprofessional he was between takes, what we SEE on screen is simply sumptuous.

[hursty]

Mar 28, 2012 6:28:13 GMT -5 Metallo said:

They're both pretty pretty silly. Give my Stamps Zod any day. Hackmans Luthor was better because the (re) writing was sharper.

Well, we weren't comparing Lex to Zod were we? I think I'd pick Zod ahead of Hackman's Lex all in all, but certainly Hackman's Lex ahead of Spacey's Lex - not even a contest.

[booshman]

Mar 28, 2012 5:15:08 GMT -5 hursty said:

Mar 27, 2012 12:23:06 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

At the end of the day Spacey's Lex was just more sinister than Hackman's Lex.

No chance.

Also, I loved Brando as Jor-El, but his performance wasn't oustanding really.

Am amazed that anyone can think that.

Brando IS outstanding, he was absolutely magnificent and the Jor-El scenes are my favourite moments in the entire series by some distance.

Got to agree that Hackan wins in the sinister stakes. Both have a big comedic element to them, one an imitation of the other , but Hackman definitely has it over Spacey. Take their intros for one example. We learn Spacey Lex has been banging old Gertrude and he scares a kid with a wig. Hackman Lex throws a cop under a train I don't think Spacey manages to top that during Returns. He comes close shanking Supes, but no quite.

Now if Spacey was more like he was in Se7en, when he played Lex, he would have easily surpassed Hackman in the sinister stakes.

As for Brando, he is fucking incredible in the scenes on Krypton. The monologue is outstanding, which is in part great writing, but the delivery is superb.

I think some of the fortress stuff (in the Donner Cut), when he's just a head isn't as spot on as the Krypton stuff, but you never know what other takes they had that weren't used. Superman the Movie though. He was worth every piece of gold they paid him in.

[hursty]

Agreed on all points Tyler

I would say though, that Jor-El's a disembodied head in the STM Fortress scenes too, and they were all filmed at the same time. I just think that because its new, we don't take to it.

[Metallo]

Mar 28, 2012 7:24:30 GMT -5 hursty said:

Mar 28, 2012 6:28:13 GMT -5 Metallo said:

They're both pretty pretty silly. Give my Stamps Zod any day. Hackmans Luthor was better because the (re) writing was sharper.

Well, we weren't comparing Lex to Zod were we? I think I'd pick Zod ahead of Hackman's Lex all in all, but certainly Hackman's Lex ahead of Spacey's Lex - not even a contest.

Saying Zod was better wasn't my primary point. The point is Hackman's Luthor wasn't all that sinister anyway. Even when he basically threatens mass murder its played pretty light with a stupid land scheme that doesn't even make sense. He's a shyster. Thats the issue a lot of fans have had with him for years. When you compare him to various other versions of Lex Luthor he comes off as a hokey used car salesmen. Thats why some people look at the Luthors of Lois & Clark and Smallville and see a much more cunning dangerous character.

Hackman's Luthor never had flashes of violence the way Spaceys did but thats a different matter than saying who was better Hackman's Luthor was better because the material was better but they're both still pretty silly. Especially when you see how far the cinematic comic book villain has come. Ledgers Joker makes Hackman's Luthor look even more kiddie. And thats not even comparing him to a more well rounded character like McKellans Magneto or Molinas Doc Ock or Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul.

[hursty]

Mar 28, 2012 7:57:27 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Mar 28, 2012 7:24:30 GMT -5 hursty said:

Well, we weren't comparing Lex to Zod were we? I think I'd pick Zod ahead of Hackman's Lex all in all, but certainly Hackman's Lex ahead of Spacey's Lex - not even a contest.

Saying Zod was better wasn't my primary point. The point is Hackman's Luthor wasn't all that sinister anyway. Even when he basically threatens mass murder its played pretty light with a stupid land scheme that doesn't even make sense. He's a shyster. Thats the issue a lot of fans have had with him for years. When you compare him to various other versions of Lex Luthor he comes off as a hokey used car salesmen. Thats why some people look at the Luthors of Lois & Clark and Smallville and see a much more cunning dangerous character.

Hackman's Luthor never had flashes of violence the way Spaceys did but thats a different matter than saying who was better Hackman's Luthor was better because the material was better but they're both still pretty silly. Especially when you see how far the cinematic comic book villain has come. Ledgers Joker makes Hackman's Luthor look even more kiddie. And thats not even comparing him to a more well rounded character like McKellans Magneto or Molinas Doc Ock or Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul.

Certainly am not getting the whole 'used car salesman' thing a few of you are coming out with.

Hackman played it straight, you say the scheme is silly, but I say its pretty damn evil, the fact that he can smile about a plot that will kill millions is exactly what makes him sinister. Nothing wrong with a smiling villain, show they are enjoying their work

[ye5man]

Hackman was straight in his scenes with Reeve; I think people who have a problem with him are thinking of his association with Otis.

That shot of him looking at his watch and shaking his head to Tessmacher was excellent.

[Valentine Smith]

Mar 28, 2012 8:22:56 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Hackman was straight in his scenes with Reeve; I think people who have a problem with him are thinking of his association with Otis.

That shot of him looking at his watch and shaking his head to Tessmacher was excellent.

yes.

Hackman's Lex DOES lose it for me during the ambulance scenes. Other than that, I'm totally OK with it. His scheme could have been anything, earthquakes, death rays, giant robots, and I think Hackman's performance could have been appropriate.

And, this may be coincidence, but there IS some precedent for Lex being a smartass. Elliot Maggin, arguably the writer who best understood the Superman/Luthor dynamic often portrayed Lex in a similar way in the comics and his novels.

[hursty]

Mar 28, 2012 8:22:56 GMT -5 ye5man said:

That shot of him looking at his watch and shaking his head to Tessmacher was excellent.

If that isn't sinister, I don't know what is.

[Metallo]

Mar 28, 2012 8:12:32 GMT -5 hursty said:

Mar 28, 2012 7:57:27 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Saying Zod was better wasn't my primary point. The point is Hackman's Luthor wasn't all that sinister anyway. Even when he basically threatens mass murder its played pretty light with a stupid land scheme that doesn't even make sense. He's a shyster. Thats the issue a lot of fans have had with him for years. When you compare him to various other versions of Lex Luthor he comes off as a hokey used car salesmen. Thats why some people look at the Luthors of Lois & Clark and Smallville and see a much more cunning dangerous character.

Hackman's Luthor never had flashes of violence the way Spaceys did but thats a different matter than saying who was better Hackman's Luthor was better because the material was better but they're both still pretty silly. Especially when you see how far the cinematic comic book villain has come. Ledgers Joker makes Hackman's Luthor look even more kiddie. And thats not even comparing him to a more well rounded character like McKellans Magneto or Molinas Doc Ock or Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul.

Certainly am not getting the whole 'used car salesman' thing a few of you are coming out with.

Hackman played it straight, you say the scheme is silly, but I say its pretty damn evil, the fact that he can smile about a plot that will kill millions is exactly what makes him sinister. Nothing wrong with a smiling villain, show they are enjoying their work

dishonest used Car salesmen tend to have the same greasy smiled ptchman presentation as Hackman's Luthor.

Just because he played it straight doesn't mean the character isn't presented as silly or tongue in cheek. What serious criminal WOULD associate with buffoons like Otis or walk around wearing ridiculous wigs and bad 1970's suits?

His land scheme is absurdly overcomplicated. Buying land in some kind of turnaround scheme is car salesman ish...especially when the probability of success is so ridiculously low. There would be nobody left to buy his land. With a bomb of that magnitude if the blast didn't kill everyone the fallout and earthquakes would.

If most criminals want money or power or to blackmail somebody they steal a nuke or release a poison. Luthors primary motivation is to make money.

What kind of villain LEAVES his adversary and just assumes he's dead? Lex Luthor of all people shouldn't be such an amateur.

His Luthor seemed to be more uncaring than just sinister. A lot easier to kill people who you've never met. Our leaders make decisions that kill innocent people every day.

When Jack Nicholson's Joker GASSES people he's looking right at, laughs, and afterward doesn't give it a second thought later on is far more sinister to me.

[Deleted]