Man of Steel - *Spoilers*

[Paul (ral)]

Just wondering...anyone know why Zod's suit pieces floated when he took them off?

[eccentricbeing]

Jul 8, 2013 19:04:34 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

"I don't change my style for anybody. Pussies do that"

- Michael Bay

It seemed like MOS was a diversion from Snyder's typical style. Just sayin'.

Yeah but Bay earned that freedom with successful movies [at the box office].

And Zod's armor pieces float for the same reasons pieces of snow and rock floated when Superman took off. I guess they can manipulate the gravity around them.

[Metallo]

Jul 8, 2013 19:04:34 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

"I don't change my style for anybody. Pussies do that"

- Michael Bay

It seemed like MOS was a diversion from Snyder's typical style. Just sayin'.

He was WBs boy for hire on this flick. I'm guessing he gladly bent (over) to WBs will considering they were keeping him on after three underperforming films.

[ye5man]

The likes of Russ and Jimbo didn't care for it,

eh, I am on the fence. Zero opinion from me. Need to see it a few more times. Xmas download hopefully.

[atp]

"My father believed that if the world found out what kind of death and destruction my presence would cause, theyd reject me. Out of fear. He was convinced that the world wasnt ready to be terraformed. What do you think?"

[Jimbo]

I'm not clear on that. Was it Jor-El's intention for Earth to eventually become Krypton through his son?

[Metallo]

I don't think so. Not exactly anyway. Maybe be wanted a new race of Kryptonians to live alongside the people of Earth but I think he also wanted Earth to learn from the mistakes of the old Krypton and become better for it. Jor El had to know that Kal El could have made any number of choices that might be different from what Jor El wanted. Maybe Kal El would continue Kryptons culture in his own way as he saw fit. I think he was just hoping for a chance that Krypton would survive in some way but it wouldn't be the same as it was before.

[atp]

Yeah we still dont really know why jorel put the codex into the babys dna or even why he sent the codex in the first place.

Also , does kal el even know where the codex now is? Jax ur and zod knew but did kal el find out? With no way of contacting jor el, how will he ever know?

[Paul (ral)]

Kal was the codex.

Jor-El's plan was to have Kal live with humans and to embrace them before recreating Kryptonians. With Kal as a bridge between the two races they could co-exist on earth. The idea of humans racing behind Kal to "join him in the sun" was that so humans would evolve to be on an even footing with the new Kryptonians when they are created.



We are used to Jor and Lara having a child and then discovering Krypton is doomed and sending the child they love to earth.

In MOS Jor-El discovers Krypton is doomed and figures the only way to save his race is to have a naturally born child, fuse him with the codex and send him to another planet with humanoids to recreate Kryptonians.

Essentially Kal is nothing more that a genetic experiment to Jor-El. That to me just feels wrong.

[atp]

But how is Kal supposed to create new Kryptonians in the first place? Did Jor El plan for jim to reproduce sexually with earth females?


Or did he expect him to use the Genesis chamber and clone kryptonians? Because I thought Jor El was against the whole Genesis chamber idea.

[Paul (ral)]

Had to be the genesis idea. It may not have been what Jor-El wanted to use but what other option was there.
Maybe by using Kal as the codex the problems with the old bloodlines may have been avoided?

[eccentricbeing]

Nothing more than a genetic experiment? Why look at it in a cold point of view? That's like me accepting the fact that I'm only the product of my parents sinful premarital fornication and I'm illegitimate. While it's true, I'm not going to live my life thinking that's what I am. So negative.

[Deleted]

if you look hard for negatives you can always find them.

[atp]

Was Jor Els plan for the codex thought through properly?

So Kal El is to recreate kryptonians on earth. And then what? How long before this super race decides to rule earth? How long before one or more of them start exhibiting ideas like Hitler?

[Jor-L5150]

Jul 8, 2013 19:27:05 GMT -5 Paul (ral) said:

Just wondering...anyone know why Zod's suit pieces floated when he took them off?

same reason the pebbles were floating around supermans fist when he launched- he was creating a gravity well.

[Jor-L5150]

EXCELLENT work here, a Man of Steel FAQ from supermanhomepage, too lengthy tp post the whole thing here

www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=mos-faq


also- some posts from homepage that i think make great points:

Got one more should consider adding Steve.

Is Superman responsible for thousands of people's deaths in Metropolis? NOOOOO!

This scene is using a lot of comic book shorthand to cut to the chase. The World Engine attack had been going on for hours and people had time to get out of the city while Superman was stopping the one in India. Take the scene with the Daily Planet staff evacuating and saving Jenny when she got trapped and envision it happening to varying degrees all over the city. The few people left are most likely lookiloos who wanted to see the world end or missed the army's evacuation zones.

Furthermore, here is the layout of the final fight courtesy of a CBR thread. http://forums.com...highlight=

As that poster demonstrates not one of Superman's punches sent Zod into a building. Once again, take that short example of Superman and Zod fighting in an empty office building and apply that to the others Superman was sent through. Superman was mostly playing defense during this fight and had very few chances to direct it, but when he did he tried to keep it all out in open spaces, in the air, or at the very least on the edge of the building. Any and all deaths should be put on Zod.

Not denying there wasn't significant property damage or loss of life but think about the bigger picture when Superman saved a planet of 6 billion people TWICE in one day.



and this-

THE FOLLOWING WILL CONTAIN MAJOR SPOILERS FOR MAN OF STEEL




Ok i have heard a bunch of people claiming superman didnt care about the people in danger until the final scene with zod, and that he probably killed several himself in his fight with zod by choosing to punch zod in to buildings. and in the city

ok here is relative proof your wrong
i watched it in theaters already but i just watched the last fight scene on the net to get my facts right

building #1 = zod plows him thru the corner of a building right on the edge of the crater, its already pretty much destroyed.

building #2 = they continue flying back until landing in a office level in another building, no one in sight probably already evacuated dew to the world engine like the daily planet people did, ZOD'S eye beams blast the building in half from the inside. zod caused this distruction 100%

building #3 = kal gets thrown from the falling building and goes thru the wall of what appears to be a parking garage, in witch zod throws a lex corp oil truck in to.
the OIL TRUCK's explosion causes the garage to fall not superman

building #4 = zod and superman fight along its surface, superman bumps it once causing a crater that doesnt stretch more than 3-4 floors.
zod jumps up and down along its surface causing that level of damage everytime he comes in to contact with the building.
zod and superman slam in to each other, and cause a bit bigger of a crator and that wall of the building slides down from the lack of support, the building itself does not fall.

building #5 = the 2 of them barely fly thru the top floor of the construction site, no people in sight. then fly back breaking thru the steel bars

superman and zod at this point punch each other thru the air across the city, not going thru anymore buildings until

building #6-7 = zod hides and then surprise attacks superman and sends him thru the walls of 2 buildings, causing mostly surface damage

building #8-10 = zod spin throws superman thru multiple buildings THIS IS ALL ZOD

building #11 = the train station after they fight into space, they crash back down in to the train station, no one is shown to be killed by there impact


SO SORRY BUT NO SUPERMAN DID NOT KILL THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, the only time that might of happened was building #2's collapse and that was all zods fault. superman did no actual structural damage to said building it was all zods eye beams.

not one of supermans blows actually sent zod in to a building. that was all superman getting hit. the times he punched zod it was in the air above the city or on the street in close quarters.

dont concur with my facts here, go to solar movie or tv links and check the details yourself.

(sorry if i seem arrogant or know it all ish, but i dont like people exaggerating the facts to make the movie look worse than it is)

[Metallo]

Lazy filmmaking at its finest. Let the fanboys come up with excuses for stuff you easily could have addressed yourselves. The evacuation is still questionable because there have been situations (attacks, disasters) etc where the authorities and government have told people to sit tight or stay in doors and not try to flee and create a panic. Even with hours in a city like metropolis it would be very difficult to evacuate so many people. Especially if they didn't want to cause a mass panic. It's just really thin writing where people basically has to assume a lot.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2013 14:11:51 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

EXCELLENT work here, a Man of Steel FAQ from supermanhomepage, too lengthy tp post the whole thing here

www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=mos-faq


also- some posts from homepage that i think make great points:

Got one more should consider adding Steve.

Is Superman responsible for thousands of people's deaths in Metropolis? NOOOOO!

This scene is using a lot of comic book shorthand to cut to the chase. The World Engine attack had been going on for hours and people had time to get out of the city while Superman was stopping the one in India. Take the scene with the Daily Planet staff evacuating and saving Jenny when she got trapped and envision it happening to varying degrees all over the city. The few people left are most likely lookiloos who wanted to see the world end or missed the army's evacuation zones.

Furthermore, here is the layout of the final fight courtesy of a CBR thread. http://forums.com...highlight=

As that poster demonstrates not one of Superman's punches sent Zod into a building. Once again, take that short example of Superman and Zod fighting in an empty office building and apply that to the others Superman was sent through. Superman was mostly playing defense during this fight and had very few chances to direct it, but when he did he tried to keep it all out in open spaces, in the air, or at the very least on the edge of the building. Any and all deaths should be put on Zod.

Not denying there wasn't significant property damage or loss of life but think about the bigger picture when Superman saved a planet of 6 billion people TWICE in one day.



and this-

THE FOLLOWING WILL CONTAIN MAJOR SPOILERS FOR MAN OF STEEL




Ok i have heard a bunch of people claiming superman didnt care about the people in danger until the final scene with zod, and that he probably killed several himself in his fight with zod by choosing to punch zod in to buildings. and in the city

ok here is relative proof your wrong
i watched it in theaters already but i just watched the last fight scene on the net to get my facts right

building #1 = zod plows him thru the corner of a building right on the edge of the crater, its already pretty much destroyed.

building #2 = they continue flying back until landing in a office level in another building, no one in sight probably already evacuated dew to the world engine like the daily planet people did, ZOD'S eye beams blast the building in half from the inside. zod caused this distruction 100%

building #3 = kal gets thrown from the falling building and goes thru the wall of what appears to be a parking garage, in witch zod throws a lex corp oil truck in to.
the OIL TRUCK's explosion causes the garage to fall not superman

building #4 = zod and superman fight along its surface, superman bumps it once causing a crater that doesnt stretch more than 3-4 floors.
zod jumps up and down along its surface causing that level of damage everytime he comes in to contact with the building.
zod and superman slam in to each other, and cause a bit bigger of a crator and that wall of the building slides down from the lack of support, the building itself does not fall.

building #5 = the 2 of them barely fly thru the top floor of the construction site, no people in sight. then fly back breaking thru the steel bars

superman and zod at this point punch each other thru the air across the city, not going thru anymore buildings until

building #6-7 = zod hides and then surprise attacks superman and sends him thru the walls of 2 buildings, causing mostly surface damage

building #8-10 = zod spin throws superman thru multiple buildings THIS IS ALL ZOD

building #11 = the train station after they fight into space, they crash back down in to the train station, no one is shown to be killed by there impact


SO SORRY BUT NO SUPERMAN DID NOT KILL THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, the only time that might of happened was building #2's collapse and that was all zods fault. superman did no actual structural damage to said building it was all zods eye beams.

not one of supermans blows actually sent zod in to a building. that was all superman getting hit. the times he punched zod it was in the air above the city or on the street in close quarters.

dont concur with my facts here, go to solar movie or tv links and check the details yourself.

(sorry if i seem arrogant or know it all ish, but i dont like people exaggerating the facts to make the movie look worse than it is)

But why let the facts get in the way of having a good cry?

[Metallo]

More like assumption and speculation.

[Deleted]

the vids up on youtube for anyone who wants to watch it back, he doesn't crash Zod through any buildings. But he does send Non through a skyscraper in SII, something I've slipped into conversation about 4 or 5 times recently that has been conveniently ignored each time

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2013 6:00:49 GMT -5 atp said:

But how is Kal supposed to create new Kryptonians in the first place? Did Jor El plan for jim to reproduce sexually with earth females?


Or did he expect him to use the Genesis chamber and clone kryptonians? Because I thought Jor El was against the whole Genesis chamber idea.

You see, ATP, when a mommy and a daddy really love each other ...

[atp]

Jul 11, 2013 15:33:22 GMT -5 @bamabrad said:

You see, ATP, when a mommy and a daddy really love each other ...

... the mommy says, "Try to do it please"?

[EnriqueH]

Has Jor-El found out about himself?

[Paul (ral)]

Jul 11, 2013 8:26:26 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

Nothing more than a genetic experiment? Why look at it in a cold point of view? That's like me accepting the fact that I'm only the product of my parents sinful premarital fornication and I'm illegitimate. While it's true, I'm not going to live my life thinking that's what I am. So negative.

How would you explain Jor-El's reasoning for a natural birth? Perhaps science experiment is the wrong phrasing, but he wasn't born out of a couples desire to get giggy or start raising a family....it was to send someone to earth without the deficiencies of their genetic engineering to start a new race of Kryptonians on Earth. If anything it's Goyer and Nolan who have a cold outlook of Kal-El's conception.

[Jor-L5150]

Jul 11, 2013 20:03:16 GMT -5 Paul (ral) said:

Jul 11, 2013 8:26:26 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

Nothing more than a genetic experiment? Why look at it in a cold point of view? That's like me accepting the fact that I'm only the product of my parents sinful premarital fornication and I'm illegitimate. While it's true, I'm not going to live my life thinking that's what I am. So negative.

How would you explain Jor-El's reasoning for a natural birth? Perhaps science experiment is the wrong phrasing, but he wasn't born out of a couples desire to get giggy or start raising a family....it was to send someone to earth without the deficiencies of their genetic engineering to start a new race of Kryptonians on Earth. If anything it's Goyer and Nolan who have a cold outlook of Kal-El's conception.

hmm.. interesting. i see the EXACT opposite.
after repeated viewings, it really seems Jor is saddened by the artificial engineering, and the lack of freedom in a caste society.
he explains to Kal that the decline of krypton BEGAN with forced population controls. his idea of having a natural child is "heresy". so he'd really HAVE to believe it to take the risk.

--------------------------------------------------------

couple thoughts-

each time i watch it i pick up on something new- or get to appreciate something a little better.
this time i felt a great deal of sorrow for Lara. i know we were hard on her at the first screening, and shes no sarah douglas, but wow- i feel so sorry for her.
she just sent her concieved at GREAT risk son to a very uncertain fate, and the last thing she does before the planet goes is attend the sentencing of her husbands' killer. ouch. she is the epitome of despair. completely alone at the end of the world. so sad.

disappointed by losing prof hamilton. i guess if youre not a comics fan, he's just a peripheral character- but man, sad to see him go.

during the battle of smallville, other than superman's impulsive error of flying into smallville in the first place (no one died in the gas station- sorry haters) you can tell that he is gretaly affected by the damage. he tries no less the THREE times to get faroa and or dev-em OUT of the town, but they tag-team him so bad he is stymied. when he DOES get a chance he throws dev-em out of town (literally) and overpowers faora in time to save hardy.
notice when he pauses to catch the pilot- he takes a moment to ask if the guy is ok- and the pause costs him. he now knows that the first, biggest priority is subduing the kryptonian soldiers. any delay will cost lives.
look at how pensive he is wen the fight is over. he has tears in his eyes. he is aghast. and he walks by the soldiers and approaches hardy- who saw what he did, and tried to do, and says "this man is not our enemy".

i realize- and its totally understandable- that it will compare with STM/SII. but in SII there several scenes where zod literally just stands there, hands behind his back, and lets ursa and non take turns having a go. only a couple times do they tag up on him.
this fight feels more...real, in the sense that battle hardened soldiers with no thought to casualties would be ruthless and use every opportunity to overpower their opponent.

battle of smallville, superman destroys a silo and a gas station. the remaining 95% of the damage is by faora, dev-em, and the military- respectively. when superman sees that damaging their masks is th eonly way to slow them down he focuses on that and buys some time.
in the battle of metropolis- there is an elapsed time indicated- we might be forgiven for sensory overload- but superman flies to other side of the world and destroys the world machine, recovers, flies back while zod goes to the north pole, erases Jor from the ship and flies back.
superman again TRIES to get zod up in the air and into space. when the fight is aerial, you can look down at the street and see the exodus from the city- the streets are full of cars leaving the city- so YES- there was an EVAC and between the drop of black zero and supermans fight with zod time has elapsed and people are leaving. you also see the local PD coordinating the EVAC.