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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 11, 2013 20:56:06 GMT -5
Nothing more than a genetic experiment? Why look at it in a cold point of view? That's like me accepting the fact that I'm only the product of my parents sinful premarital fornication and I'm illegitimate. While it's true, I'm not going to live my life thinking that's what I am. So negative. How would you explain Jor-El's reasoning for a natural birth? Perhaps science experiment is the wrong phrasing, but he wasn't born out of a couples desire to get giggy or start raising a family....it was to send someone to earth without the deficiencies of their genetic engineering to start a new race of Kryptonians on Earth. If anything it's Goyer and Nolan who have a cold outlook of Kal-El's conception. He was conceived for the greater good of preserving the Kryptonian race and out of the ideal shared by Jor-el that people should have their own destinies to be followed. That's one heck of a gift to give to a child whose own species don't share such lifestyles...let alone being the last one of his kind. It's only a cold outlook if you choose to see it that way. |
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jul 11, 2013 21:24:22 GMT -5
Yeah, but he wasn't gifted those things after he was born out of love. He was born to BE gifted those things. That doesn't have the same emotional impact for me.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 11, 2013 21:46:55 GMT -5
So he has to be born out of love for you to have emotional impact.
sigh....
Ok.
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Post by Jimbo on Jul 11, 2013 22:25:04 GMT -5
It felt like to me that he was a test tube baby that happened to be born from a mother's womb.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 11, 2013 22:46:24 GMT -5
I wish you guys could see the recent ep of "through the wormhole" w/ mogan freeman.
It was all about this stuff. Very cautionary.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 11, 2013 22:52:12 GMT -5
So he has to be born out of love for you to have emotional impact. sigh.... Ok. I know, right? He didn't love lara? He sure seemed to to me. And she seemed devastated when Jor died. And she was - in true maternal fashion- very resistant to letting kal go (even though she knew why she had to). Jor explains that kryptonians had gotten "used to" the artificial reproduction- not that they stopped having emotional attachments. In the surreal montage Jor shows Kal it depicts a couple holding their infant in an artificial womb. That tells me that people still loved each other- romantically- but the mechanics of reproduction got overtly clinical. Those of us well versed in john byrne superman are loving this. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Jul 12, 2013 3:28:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 3:59:07 GMT -5
So he has to be born out of love for you to have emotional impact. sigh.... Ok. I know, right? He didn't love lara? He sure seemed to to me. And she seemed devastated when Jor died. And she was - in true maternal fashion- very resistant to letting kal go (even though she knew why she had to). Jor explains that kryptonians had gotten "used to" the artificial reproduction- not that they stopped having emotional attachments. In the surreal montage Jor shows Kal it depicts a couple holding their infant in an artificial womb. That tells me that people still loved each other- romantically- but the mechanics of reproduction got overtly clinical. Those of us well versed in john byrne superman are loving this. Dude, your last few posts ... tip your cap and round the bases. |
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jul 12, 2013 5:07:02 GMT -5
I didn't say Jor and Lara didn't love each other. I didn't say they didn't love Kal once he was born. It's evident when Lara talks about sending him away "I thought I could do it, but now that he's here I don't think I can" - or words to that effect.
I'm just saying the movie doesn't convincingly portray that's why he was born...he was born to save the Kryptonians.
I loved the Byrne influenced stuff too, but I think too much convolution in Kal's reason for being was unnecessary.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 12, 2013 7:45:18 GMT -5
So he has to be born out of love for you to have emotional impact. sigh.... Ok. I know, right? He didn't love lara? He sure seemed to to me. And she seemed devastated when Jor died. And she was - in true maternal fashion- very resistant to letting kal go (even though she knew why she had to). Jor explains that kryptonians had gotten "used to" the artificial reproduction- not that they stopped having emotional attachments. In the surreal montage Jor shows Kal it depicts a couple holding their infant in an artificial womb. That tells me that people still loved each other- romantically- but the mechanics of reproduction got overtly clinical. Those of us well versed in john byrne superman are loving this. More broad generalizations.  I am well versed in the John Byrne Superman. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 12, 2013 11:36:16 GMT -5
it wasnt personal metallo. i didnt mean to imply that EVERY byrne fan is automatically a fan of MoS- just that most of us HERE actually ARE. there are PLENTY of MoS critics who have no depth of knowledge of superman outside of STM or smallville tv. it wasnt directed at you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ as to Jor and Lara- they are both scientists, and have the knowledge to understand what has to be done. so, its like when a parent first has to send their child to school, or go to the hospital for surgery, or put them up for adoption, you can understand intellectually why its necessary, but that doesnt mean its easy to go through with. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ brad- thanks. im here to help. dahahahaha  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 12, 2013 12:08:34 GMT -5
John Byrne... hang on, wasn't he the guy who decided Ma Kent was the one who made Superman's costume? On her sewing machine?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 12, 2013 12:35:34 GMT -5
He also did the stupid "birthing matrix opening on US soil" bullshit that nobody outside of comics (not even L&C or MOS) wanted to use. Guess Byrne secretly hates being born a Brit ( turned Canadian) and decided to project  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 12, 2013 13:16:39 GMT -5
He also did the stupid "birthing matrix opening on US soil" bullshit that nobody outside of comics (not even L&C or MOS) wanted to use. Guess Byrne secretly hates being born a Brit ( turned Canadian) and decided to project TRUE BRIT about says it all. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 12, 2013 16:07:37 GMT -5
John Byrne... hang on, wasn't he the guy who decided Ma Kent was the one who made Superman's costume? On her sewing machine? It was right after the (first) CRISIS and in that version superman was not the first superhero- the justice society came first and superman was written as a late 20s adult in the late 1980s. Pa kent remembered seeing news reels of the justice society from when he was a kid and suggested a colorful disguise. This was echoed in LOIS and CLARK pilot episode. Its the one aspect where I prefer the precrisis concept of the costume and "S" being of kryptonian origin.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 13, 2013 13:13:38 GMT -5
I'm well versed in Byrne's reboot, but liked some, but not all, of his changes.... definitely dug the artwork, though...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 13, 2013 13:19:35 GMT -5
Best thing about Byrne was he dialed a lot back to basics. That was needed. The continuity and additions had become unwieldily since the Weisinger era. All of DC needed a streamlining back then. Some of his edicts were for the worst though. I don't want tons of Kryptonians but no Kryptonians eliminates a lot of good potential stories.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jul 13, 2013 18:32:19 GMT -5
Does anyone think MOS borrowed more from Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" than John Byrne?
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 13, 2013 22:47:35 GMT -5
1 Does anyone think MOS borrowed more from Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" than John Byrne? Bravo!! I say again- through the wormhole with morgan freeman- the ep about genetic engineering... |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 14, 2013 1:17:26 GMT -5
How come jor el waited until after kal el was born before warning the council that krypton was doomed?
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jul 14, 2013 6:58:54 GMT -5
1 Does anyone think MOS borrowed more from Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" than John Byrne? Bravo!! I say again- through the wormhole with morgan freeman- the ep about genetic engineering... Is it a new series? I saw a few of those a couple of years ago, but found them to cover very little new. I can imagine Nolan had read Brave New World over Superman comics... Then again BNW has influenced so much...but the parallels are too close. |
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jul 14, 2013 7:02:29 GMT -5
How come jor el waited until after kal el was born before warning the council that krypton was doomed? Maybe he had a theory but no sound evidence until then...though an Al Gore type PowerPoint presentation might have helped his cause better. |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 14, 2013 7:06:26 GMT -5
Maybe he had a theory but no sound evidence until then...though an Al Gore type PowerPoint presentation might have helped his cause better. Or this DVD would have been even better:  |
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Jul 14, 2013 9:32:29 GMT -5
this is madness!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 14, 2013 10:03:45 GMT -5
This! Is! Kryptoooooon!
Gerard Butler and Lena Headey as Jor-El and Lara? Hmm...
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