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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 1, 2013 20:29:55 GMT -5
TDKs greatness didn't depend on finally seeing its main character punch something. Pffft. That's because the batman never had a LACK of punching. Its like saying "rocky 6 didn't hinge on punching". No shit. Was there EVER a rocky movie w/out punching? Pretty damn sure not. But superman- in cinema - has had a conspicuous absence of throwdowns. And even when he fights a terence stamp or a nucular mayn its fairly NOT awesome. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 1, 2013 20:44:29 GMT -5
Give it another couple of months.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 1, 2013 20:56:41 GMT -5
Give it another couple of months. Till what? Till we come to our senses and join the hecklers? Maybe- just wrap your jason-statham-apologist-mind around this- maybe its good enough to really be happy about, and maybe in spite of real or imagined flaws it has enough merit to get excited about, maybe we got a LOT of what we have craved for a generation, maybe its ...really. not. That. Bad. Maybe its hitting enough of the right buttons we want to see more. Much more, and soon. And you and metallo can say "maybe not" and continue to wait (in vain) for happy fans to come around to your way of thinking. Man of steel is orders of magnitude better than ANY star wars prequel. Not saying much I know, but a little birdie tells me you'll give the prequels a pass. So maybe you get point your piss stream away from those who give man of steel a pass.
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 1, 2013 21:08:41 GMT -5
Give it another couple of months. Till what? Till we come to our senses and join the hecklers? Maybe- just wrap your jason-statham-apologist-mind around this- maybe its good enough to really be happy about, and maybe in spite of real or imagined flaws it has enough merit to get excited about, maybe we got a LOT of what we have craved for a generation, maybe its ...really. not. That. Bad. Maybe its hitting enough of the right buttons we want to see more. Much more, and soon. And you and metallo can say "maybe not" and continue to wait (in vain) for happy fans to come around to your way of thinking. Man of steel is orders of magnitude better than ANY star wars prequel. Not saying much I know, but a little birdie tells me you'll give the prequels a pass. So maybe you get point your piss stream away from those who give man of steel a pass. Ok, well first of all, I was replying to Kevin and not you, but that's my fault for not including his quote to make that more clear. Second, I don't give the prequels a pass and find tremendous fault in them and have stated so on several occasions. I'd be happy to get more detailed with this, but at the moment the issue is MOS. Third, I've never said that I dislike MOS. I like MOS but I am critical of it. I am also frustrated: nobody seems capable of nailing a Superman film. They've come close, but that's it. Close. Superman II came out in 1980. You're telling me that nobody can make a great Superman film in over 30 years? I know it can be done. There were times watching MOS that I thought Snyder nailed it, but by the end it was obvious that this was eye candy. Nothing more. The battle between Superman and Zod illustrates that. The way to do it is the way they did in SII: with innocenets being placed in harms way and having Superman go back and forth between fighting and saving, and sometimes not being able to save. Yeah, the slapstick that came after was too much for some, but everything in that battle was done right. A healthy balance of action, drama and humor. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 1, 2013 22:18:10 GMT -5
Enrique- I ...think I love you.
What snyder did is give us what we asked for. This IS superman in full tilt may hem. I could go scene by scene and scripture and verse in almost every era of the comics- its all there. On the screen.
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 1, 2013 22:32:21 GMT -5
Enrique- I ...think I love you. What snyder did is give us what we asked for. This IS superman in full tilt may hem. I could go scene by scene and scripture and verse in almost every era of the comics- its all there. On the screen. Jor, you have a Ronald Reagan avatar. I love Ronald Reagan. I have no idea what you mean, but everything is cool cuz of that avatar. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 0:00:00 GMT -5
I don't really give a shit to be honest. I think it's a good film, nothing more. The way I see it Batman Begins was great though it didn't exactly get high praise on release. TDK had its buzz amped up to the max with Ledgers death, suddenly the sheep flocked to see it, TDKR was a mess which rode on the coat tails of it's predecessor. Above all else TDK doesn't even feel like a comic book movie to me. But the main question is, why are people not happy with me voicing my opinion on TDK but they get offended by the fact that I enjoyed MOS and have defended it against some of the more pathetic criticisms. I'm starting to wonder if the people who sent the early TDKR reviewers death threats and abusive messages for not giving good reviews were actually members of this forum. Yeah Man of Steel isn't a brilliant film, but so what, if you don't like it don't watch it, but don't piss and moan about Superman killing Zod, buildings crashing etc when you're determined to turn a blind eye to him killing Zod in SII and punching Non through a skyscraper, launching Zod into a coke sign etc. Incidentally that isn't necessarily directed at you eccentric TDK didn't feel like a comic book movie because it transcended the genre. If anything, it's a crime drama, not a superhero movie. It got regular people to watch it and like it and not be embarrassed to like a comic book movie. I don't know who said it, but I defer to the wisdom I'll now paraphrase: It worked because Nolan in part deconstructed the genre and one trope that the endgame is a big ol' brawl. The big climax of the movie wasn't some overdone fist fight. In fact, the Joker even brags that he didn't hinge the "battle for Gotham's soul" on a fist fight. He destroyed Dent to the point that the Batman and Gordon claimed victory based on a lie. In a way, the Joker won. Not immediately, but it sure as shit unraveled eight years later. Iron Man movies ended with brawls. Cap ended with a brawl. Thor ended with a brawl. Avengers ended with a brawl. MoS ended with a brawl. No one gives two farts how Green Lantern ended because everyone stopped watching after 43 minutes and no one knows the ending. Batman Begins ended with a brawl. TDKR didn't end with a brawl, but it still wasn't as ballsy as the ending of TDK. If Ledger's death was the only reason that picture made money, Tom Hiddleston would be dead now. Okay, that's hyperbole, but I stand by the rest. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 4:49:10 GMT -5
I don't really give a shit to be honest. I think it's a good film, nothing more. The way I see it Batman Begins was great though it didn't exactly get high praise on release. TDK had its buzz amped up to the max with Ledgers death, suddenly the sheep flocked to see it, TDKR was a mess which rode on the coat tails of it's predecessor. Above all else TDK doesn't even feel like a comic book movie to me. But the main question is, why are people not happy with me voicing my opinion on TDK but they get offended by the fact that I enjoyed MOS and have defended it against some of the more pathetic criticisms. I'm starting to wonder if the people who sent the early TDKR reviewers death threats and abusive messages for not giving good reviews were actually members of this forum. Yeah Man of Steel isn't a brilliant film, but so what, if you don't like it don't watch it, but don't piss and moan about Superman killing Zod, buildings crashing etc when you're determined to turn a blind eye to him killing Zod in SII and punching Non through a skyscraper, launching Zod into a coke sign etc. Incidentally that isn't necessarily directed at you eccentric If anything, it's a crime drama, not a superhero movie. It got regular people to watch it and like it and not be embarrassed to like a comic book movie. I don't know who said it, but I defer to the wisdom I'll now paraphrase: It worked because Nolan in part deconstructed the genre and one trope that the endgame is a big ol' brawl. The big climax of the movie wasn't some overdone fist fight. In fact, the Joker even brags that he didn't hinge the "battle for Gotham's soul" on a fist fight. He destroyed Dent to the point that the Batman and Gordon claimed victory based on a lie. In a way, the Joker won. Not immediately, but it sure as shit unraveled eight years later. Iron Man movies ended with brawls. Cap ended with a brawl. Thor ended with a brawl. Avengers ended with a brawl. MoS ended with a brawl. No one gives two farts how Green Lantern ended because everyone stopped watching after 43 minutes and no one knows the ending. Batman Begins ended with a brawl. TDKR didn't end with a brawl, but it still wasn't as ballsy as the ending of TDK. If Ledger's death was the only reason that picture made money, Tom Hiddleston would be dead now. Okay, that's hyperbole, but I stand by the rest. I hate that transcended the genre thing. That's the problem with it, that's why I'm not a big fan, it doesn't feel like a comic book film because it actively went out of it's way to appeal to people who thought themselves above comic book films, it's so glaringly self important and pretentious.. It's like Charlie Brooker said in his TDKR review (TDKR funnily enough isn't nearly as bad as TDK for this) I spoke to people about TDK when it came out who said it was brilliant but curiously couldn't actually say much more about it, it's as if they didn't even take it in but just sat there to say they'd seen it. I'm glad you guys as Batman fans genuinely enjoy it that much, to me it's just a good film but nowhere near ground breaking or a game changer. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 2, 2013 8:37:33 GMT -5
TDKs greatness didn't depend on finally seeing its main character punch something. Pffft. That's because the batman never had a LACK of punching. Its like saying "rocky 6 didn't hinge on punching". No shit. Was there EVER a rocky movie w/out punching? Pretty damn sure not. But superman- in cinema - has had a conspicuous absence of throwdowns. And even when he fights a terence stamp or a nucular mayn its fairly NOT awesome. Aaaaand as usual Jor missed the point. I said the quality of that film DIDN'T depend on the punching. It had something else going for it that made it good. Great superhero films are about more than cgi bulkshit yknow. Beyond Superman punching shit MOS is the same rehashed story with a new coat of paint. And even then it couldn't get the punching to be worth a fuck. It turned into Bayformers too often. And we didn't even get the badassedness of Peter Cullen. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 2, 2013 9:13:15 GMT -5
....aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddd
As usual metallo is snarky and ignores someone ELSES point.
Metallo is perfectly free to make any point he wants, but when someone else has a different view/responce/likes/loves/hates different elements we "miss HIS point".
Oh dear sweet lord metallo christ we thank you that in your abundant mercy you have lowered yourself to us mere mortals. Please continue to be patient and humble as we try and "get" YOUR "point" as your "points" are the end-all be-all.
Amen and amen.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 2, 2013 9:27:30 GMT -5
And once again Jor does his smartass above the fray complaining to the masses point the finger brainwashed neocon woe is me act. If you want to talk the point back up what you say instead of talking shit. Otherwise it seems like that's all you got. Point the finger like you usually do when you get butthurt about anyone who uses some actual details to back up what they say instead of your usual bullshit sweeping broad generalizations. I didn't ignore your point. I countered it with my opinion. Instead of responding in kind you look for someone to back you up and pat you on the back and join in for a good laugh just to reassure your bruised ego.
You gonna cry about how Mark Waid fucked you over now? Gonna fall back on the old reserve and whine about bleeding heart liberals like a trained lapdog yet again? What about taking a shot at anybody who doesn't kiss MOSs cinematic ass?
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 2, 2013 9:30:19 GMT -5
Iron Man movies ended with brawls. Cap ended with a brawl. Thor ended with a brawl. Avengers ended with a brawl. MoS ended with a brawl. No one gives two farts how Green Lantern ended because everyone stopped watching after 43 minutes and no one knows the ending. Batman Begins ended with a brawl. TDKR didn't end with a brawl, but it still wasn't as ballsy as the ending of TDK. Wow. I knew comic book films followed a certain formula - just didn't realize it was THAT predictable. It's quite lame actually now that we see it in that light - if you're a comic book movie - the script must end in a huge fight with lots of destruction. And yes, TDK does transcend the genre - but a lot of that is due to the fact that the Batman material is arguably the easiest to make that leap. He has no superpowers - and all the villains are guys you could pull out of a police lineup (more or less). What Nolan and Goyer get credit for is an intelligent story that didn't pander to comic book norms or expectations. And the ending is probably one of the most original and satisfying that I've seen. TDK has great replayability for me. Plenty of neat moments, so I can forgive the lectures that hit us in the face. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 2, 2013 9:57:51 GMT -5
Actually, I wasn't a particularly big Batman fan UNTIL the Nolan flicks.
Same as Wolverine---didnt care for him at all UNTIL Hugh Jackman.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 2, 2013 10:13:38 GMT -5
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 2, 2013 10:15:44 GMT -5
And once again Jor does his smartass above the fray complaining to the masses point the finger brainwashed neocon woe is me act. If you want to talk the point back up what you say instead of talking shit. Otherwise it seems like that's all you got. Point the finger like you usually do when you get butthurt about anyone who uses some actual details to back up what they say instead of your usual bullshit sweeping broad generalizations. I didn't ignore your point. I countered it with my opinion. Instead of responding in kind you look for someone to back you up and pat you on the back and join in for a good laugh just to reassure your bruised ego. You gonna cry about how Mark Waid fucked you over now? Gonna fall back on the old reserve and whine about bleeding heart liberals like a trained lapdog yet again? What about taking a shot at anybody who doesn't kiss MOSs cinematic ass? Well you're very good at acting superior- but you're not a good listener. 1) my personal politics have zero relevence. You seem to think you have me pegged in that regard and it is you who are overgenerilising. 2) it is YOU who make 99% of your posts as a "correction" of someone elses view/opinio. Then you get sideways when someone calls you on being smug you act like they are "smartass such and such" 3) for the umpteenth time I will reiterate that my negative opinion of mark waid PREDATES the production of MOS. There's been plenty of negative comments from various people about MOS and I don't single each and every one out for fanboy rage. In almost every case I honestly do not care. Mark waid was already on my shit list - no matter how much you mischaracterise (deliberately) my motivation in that regard. But go ahead and ignore that fact if it reinforces your sense of superiority. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 2, 2013 10:16:17 GMT -5
And once again Jor does his smartass above the fray complaining to the masses point the finger brainwashed neocon woe is me act. If you want to talk the point back up what you say instead of talking shit. Otherwise it seems like that's all you got. Point the finger like you usually do when you get butthurt about anyone who uses some actual details to back up what they say instead of your usual bullshit sweeping broad generalizations. I didn't ignore your point. I countered it with my opinion. Instead of responding in kind you look for someone to back you up and pat you on the back and join in for a good laugh just to reassure your bruised ego. You gonna cry about how Mark Waid fucked you over now? Gonna fall back on the old reserve and whine about bleeding heart liberals like a trained lapdog yet again? What about taking a shot at anybody who doesn't kiss MOSs cinematic ass? Well you're very good at acting superior- but you're not a good listener. 1) my personal politics have zero relevence. You seem to think you have me pegged in that regard and it is you who are overgenerilising. 2) it is YOU who make 99% of your posts as a "correction" of someone elses view/opinio. Then you get sideways when someone calls you on being smug you act like they are "smartass such and such" 3) for the umpteenth time I will reiterate that my negative opinion of mark waid PREDATES the production of MOS. There's been plenty of negative comments from various people about MOS and I don't single each and every one out for fanboy rage. In almost every case I honestly do not care. Mark waid was already on my shit list - no matter how much you mischaracterise (deliberately) my motivation in that regard. But go ahead and ignore that fact if it reinforces your sense of superiority. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 2, 2013 10:17:17 GMT -5
Waid?
Is that the guy that wrote that boring ass Superman origin story in Africa?
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 2, 2013 10:19:35 GMT -5
H Waid? Is that the guy that wrote that boring ass Superman origin story in Africa? Yes. I have met him in real life- he is a douche. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 10:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 2, 2013 10:25:12 GMT -5
Sorry, Kris.
You don't get to act whiney and bitchy and then get to post a popcorn eating meme.
You hae to choose.
One or the other, pal.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 2, 2013 10:27:36 GMT -5
And once again Jor does his smartass above the fray complaining to the masses point the finger brainwashed neocon woe is me act. If you want to talk the point back up what you say instead of talking shit. Otherwise it seems like that's all you got. Point the finger like you usually do when you get butthurt about anyone who uses some actual details to back up what they say instead of your usual bullshit sweeping broad generalizations. I didn't ignore your point. I countered it with my opinion. Instead of responding in kind you look for someone to back you up and pat you on the back and join in for a good laugh just to reassure your bruised ego. You gonna cry about how Mark Waid fucked you over now? Gonna fall back on the old reserve and whine about bleeding heart liberals like a trained lapdog yet again? What about taking a shot at anybody who doesn't kiss MOSs cinematic ass? Well you're very good at acting superior- but you're not a good listener. 1) my personal politics have zero relevence. You seem to think you have me pegged in that regard and it is you who are overgenerilising. 2) it is YOU who make 99% of your posts as a "correction" of someone elses view/opinio. Then you get sideways when someone calls you on being smug you act like they are "smartass such and such" 3) for the umpteenth time I will reiterate that my negative opinion of mark waid PREDATES the production of MOS. There's been plenty of negative comments from various people about MOS and I don't single each and every one out for fanboy rage. In almost every case I honestly do not care. Mark waid was already on my shit list - no matter how much you mischaracterise (deliberately) my motivation in that regard. But go ahead and ignore that fact if it reinforces your sense of superiority. Except you almost always seem to bring your personal politics into every fucking discussion even when they aren't relevant. Just to bitch about the way things are. That cock shaped Sean Hannity pacifier not doing it for you today? And what exactly did you bitching about Mark Waid and your past issues with him have to do with these MOS threads? Even when this discussion had nothing to do with that you still started whining about the guy as soon as his opinion on MOS came up. Like you couldn't fucking help yourself. I'm not correcting anyone's viewpoint. I'm pointing out stuff you conveniently ignored because it suited your argument. But then when someone points these things out its like someone jerked your shitplug you started aspewin with the douchebag jokes because you had nothing relevant to say. If you disagree with what I say why don't you use the topic at hand instead of looking for some of the fellow board members to wipe your ass, cheer you on and out you back in the game, champ. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 10:29:40 GMT -5
I can do what I want. Stop whining like a bitch.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 10:31:20 GMT -5
fucking nora, this really is pathetic guys. In the words of Duncan Bannatyne, I'm out.  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 2, 2013 10:34:20 GMT -5
I hate to interrupt metallos misharacterisations and broad brush accusations- but for the record- for EVERYONE ELSE let me make sure I'm clear about a couple things:
1) I NEVER said- EVER that "man of steel" is a perfect film because superman cartoons are occasionally violent. It was a comaprison of content and nothing more. I should have anticipated a reactionary responce from some- that maybe I was excusing the faults of one thing by pointing out elements of another but that's not my intent.
2) I have never asked/demanded/needed ANYone to ...how'd he put it? "Kiss MOS cinematic ass".
MOS is what it is and anyone can take or leave it. As trendy as it is to hate ob MOS I don't see the need to "correct" people who DO like it. Nothing more.
3) mark waid was a douche before he trashed MOS. I didn't bat an eye when paul dini or others piled on.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 2, 2013 10:34:20 GMT -5
Actually, I wasn't a particularly big Batman fan UNTIL the Nolan flicks. Same as Wolverine---didnt care for him at all UNTIL Hugh Jackman. Always liked Batman but the movies thankfully moved him away from the cliched asshole persona that 90s comics turned him into. Jackmans take did the same thing. The more interesting Wolverine of the 70s and 80s had become a cliche. The movies tried to make him a person again. |
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