Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 6, 2019 22:05:46 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 8, 2019 16:58:02 GMT -5
 I wonder what’s blacked out? Now we know what was blacked out.  It’s just Oliver Queens daughter in a green arrow costume. We already knew that was going to happen so I don’t see what the big deal was. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 8, 2019 20:29:45 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 9, 2019 16:15:31 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 9, 2019 21:49:25 GMT -5
Spoilers!
I must say...it’s pretty interesting to see which on screen versions of Superman got to live which “last great Superman stories.” Also interesting to realize Jon Cryer has probably tried to kill more on screen Supermen than anyone. It’s fascinating to see how he plays against the three Clark’s in this story. I like how he feels Superman will always be his greatest enemy no matter what world or universe. Makes it feel almost fated that they’re enemies.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 10, 2019 16:47:15 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2019 10:49:03 GMT -5
SPOILERS!
Loved that ending. One heck of a cliffhanger to end things on.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2019 12:41:46 GMT -5
LOVED so much of this event. I was expecting to be underwhelmed, but I'm really, really impressed. My main bummer now is a gut feeling that the 'death' of Routh Superman may be the 'real' death.... but I'm hoping that the popularity of Routh's Superman appearance stirs action for his return somehow.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2019 13:25:29 GMT -5
I wouldn’t worry about it. If he’s dead from that EVERYONE in every universe stays dead and there’s no way that happens.
Also...I know it’s probably totally off the table because of the Wonder Woman movies but it would be cool if they could fold the Adrianne Palicki version of Wonder Woman into the Arrowverse the same way they did with Constantine. Even if it’s just for a quick cameo in COIE. Heck I’d be fine with her being from her own separate Earth.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2019 13:42:06 GMT -5
I wouldn’t worry about it. If he’s dead from that EVERYONE in every universe stays dead and there’s no way that happens. Also...I know it’s probably totally off the table because of the Wonder Woman movies but it would be cool if they could fold the Adrianne Palicki version of Wonder Woman into the Arrowverse the same way they did with Constantine. Even if it’s just for a quick cameo in COIE. Heck I’d be fine with her being from her own separate Earth. Supposedly there's still a few (one?) more cameo to suprise Jan 14th. Will see. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2019 13:58:37 GMT -5
Yeah I hope they give us some great surprises.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2019 17:05:57 GMT -5
Yeah I hope they give us some great surprises. It's interesting how they broke it up--- the first three in consecutive nights was a smart touch... as it feels like a good 'pause point' with all the major casualties of classic Flash, Birds of Prey , 1960's Robin, and (possibly) Routh Supes and having all the earths destroyed as a great cliffhanger- and they flew by FAST for three hours. Wonder how they can satisfy in the last two hours.... |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2019 22:06:16 GMT -5
Yeah I agree. It was the right point to have a cliffhanger though I’m sure the schedule and available timeslots was a big factor. As for the last two hours that should be enough though I do wish the whole thing was six hours and they’d used black Lightning’s time slot for an hour. I’ve been wondering if this  was their attempt to recreate this?  Just with the roles reversed. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 12, 2019 4:14:38 GMT -5
Yeah I agree. It was the right point to have a cliffhanger though I’m sure the schedule and available timeslots was a big factor. As for the last two hours that should be enough though I do wish the whole thing was six hours and they’d used black Lightning’s time slot for an hour. I’ve been wondering if this was their attempt to recreate this? Just with the roles reversed. Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing. One thing that I wanted more of, was more character moments between some of the characters to reflect or to distinguish how this event was different than the other times --- like the moment in Infinity War where Thor reflected how he had nothing left to lose in facing Thanos. There were a good number of character bits I enjoyed that do that thankfully - but was greedy for more perhaps even another one with Kara and Routh's Superman ---- especially if this is the 'real' end of his version of his character. But- dying in his cousin's arms was framed in an iconic way. If this is how he goes, it's treated far far better than how Kirk went in Generations. On another note- What gets me too is how Routh mentioned he was asked and had to think about it first on putting back on the Superman suit. (I always wondered if he was asked years ago when he had to be in scenes with himself as Palmer and seeing a 'new guy' as Superman in the previous crossovers how he would feel.) I always suspected, but was impressed by his interviews that mentioned for sure that the role is/was anything but trivial to him. Glad he got this experience that was a long time coming and overdue--- and glad that he's very open to doing more. Hopefully WB is listening!  |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 12, 2019 19:51:38 GMT -5
Yeah there is so much going on and so many characters it’s hard to get a lot of meaningful character interactions.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 12, 2019 21:20:26 GMT -5
Yeah there is so much going on and so many characters it’s hard to get a lot of meaningful character interactions. As an aside- I don't know if you've been watching the Kevin Smith 'Aftermath' shows - but a big omission I've noticed is Smith NOT mentioning Routh and Welling's return. Smith did pan Superman Returns, so maybe he was just asked not to mention anything that he wasn't crazy about? But, I'm glad that Routh is on other media outlets (as you've shared here) to talk about the behind the scenes for him personally on it, as well as some of the other stars' reactions to Routh back in the suit as well. |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 13, 2019 12:32:08 GMT -5
I watched. They did two one hours long after shows I can’t remember if they said anything about Routh or Welling but since they covered so much I can see why it was easy to gloss over. Kevin’s a big Batman fan so Kevin Conroys appearance took up a lot of time as did John Wesley Shipps. Speaking of Batman here’s a better pic of Conroys Batmobile.  Clearly intended to be a nod to the Burton/Keaton Batmobile. I like how Some of these alternate Earths blend elements from previous incarnations. Conroys batsuit was the earth one batsuit. Another example is on earth 90 some of the heroes looked like earth 1 and earth 167 versions of the characters. It’s an easy way to explain why some shows used elements from previous screen incarnations besides just fan service/homage. Birds of Prey used some designs from Burton and Schumachers Batman movies and Smallville and Superman Returns used elements from the Reeve films. I like to think of them as universal or multiversal constants. On many earths Lois and others always seem to write the same articles on Superman like “I spent the night with Superman“ and “Caped Wonder Stuns City!” |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 13, 2019 15:50:08 GMT -5
I watched. They did two one hours long after shows I can’t remember if they said anything about Routh or Welling but since they covered so much I can see why it was easy to gloss over. Kevin’s a big Batman fan so Kevin Conroys appearance took up a lot of time as did John Wesley Shipps. Speaking of Batman here’s a better pic of Conroys Batmobile. Clearly intended to be a nod to the Burton/Keaton Batmobile. I like how Some of these alternate Earths blend elements from previous incarnations. Conroys batsuit was the earth one batsuit. Another example is on earth 90 some of the heroes looked like earth 1 and earth 167 versions of the characters. It’s an easy way to explain why some shows used elements from previous screen incarnations besides just fan service/homage. Birds of Prey used some designs from Burton and Schumachers Batman movies and Smallville and Superman Returns used elements from the Reeve films. I like to think of them as universal or multiversal constants. On many earths Lois and others always seem to write the same articles on Superman like “I spent the night with Superman“ and “Caped Wonder Stuns City!” I agree. I do wonder how deeply they thought out the alternate universes--- given how they had to work out logistics with available actors/sets/etc.--- I imagine a number of things had to written QUICK- especially if offers to actors like Michael Rosenbaum were as he mentioned where committments were asked with little windows to get a yes or no, and having to make adjustments for such. On another note--- Couldn't they have photoshopped Tom Welling in a costume for the front page of the newspaper that displayed on the wall? Unless Welling REALLY didn't want any image of him in costume whatsoever? If so.... really, Tom? |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 14, 2019 14:20:11 GMT -5
I agree. I do wonder how deeply they thought out the alternate universes--- given how they had to work out logistics with available actors/sets/etc.--- I imagine a number of things had to written QUICK- especially if offers to actors like Michael Rosenbaum were as he mentioned where committments were asked with little windows to get a yes or no, and having to make adjustments for such. On another note--- Couldn't they have photoshopped Tom Welling in a costume for the front page of the newspaper that displayed on the wall? Unless Welling REALLY didn't want any image of him in costume whatsoever? If so.... really, Tom? That’s a good question. I imagine they didn’t want to cheat it with Welling as Superman. People would know it was a photoshop job. If he does show up in costume it will make it even more special. Besides I can’t imagine Welling would say “don’t photoshop me.” That would be incredibly petty on his part. As for the way they did things I imagine they had their basic story with their regular characters ready to go no matter what. All the other stuff was ideas they wanted to do and had planned out but the overall story didn’t depend on them. Then those kinds of scenes and cameos could be plugged in and out if necessary. I’m sure they got a commitment early from some people they could rely on like Shipp but if someone like Welling had said no it could have easily been removed without affecting the story. Seems like it was all designed with that in mind. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2019 15:57:25 GMT -5
I agree. I do wonder how deeply they thought out the alternate universes--- given how they had to work out logistics with available actors/sets/etc.--- I imagine a number of things had to written QUICK- especially if offers to actors like Michael Rosenbaum were as he mentioned where committments were asked with little windows to get a yes or no, and having to make adjustments for such. On another note--- Couldn't they have photoshopped Tom Welling in a costume for the front page of the newspaper that displayed on the wall? Unless Welling REALLY didn't want any image of him in costume whatsoever? If so.... really, Tom? That’s a good question. I imagine they didn’t want to cheat it with Welling as Superman. People would know it was a photoshop job. If he does show up in costume it will make it even more special. Besides I can’t imagine Welling would say “don’t photoshop me.” That would be incredibly petty on his part. As for the way they did things I imagine they had their basic story with their regular characters ready to go no matter what. All the other stuff was ideas they wanted to do and had planned out but the overall story didn’t depend on them. Then those kinds of scenes and cameos could be plugged in and out if necessary. I’m sure they got a commitment early from some people they could rely on like Shipp but if someone like Welling had said no it could have easily been removed without affecting the story. Seems like it was all designed with that in mind. Agreed- the good/bad about making the guest star material easily removable is that it could be seen as an unnecessary detour here and there for the main story.... but the fan service is so high, imo- who cares? To me, the Welling, Routh as Supes, and other star cameos MADE this a must-see for me.... but it's sad that a number of fans feel like their characters are getting trashed rather than celebrated- but it could easily be said that the versions on screen 'aren't' necessarily canon but an alternate universe version of. On another note- I'd read somewhere that Welling was so happy with the way the scene was written for him, in his case, he 'couldn't say no'. That's cool. For me, hoping that the Crisis conclusion includes a lot more cameos. Would be nice if WB allows them to package Crisis as a special Blu ray/ dvd set... sad also tbhat the "Aftershow" was extremely low in the ratings. Hopefully there's more on Smith's youtube channel on his reaction to Crisis, but possibly a conflict of interest if he was paid to host the aftershow... |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 14, 2019 16:47:39 GMT -5
Honestly as a fan of most of these shows and movies I can’t see how anyone could have major complaints with how the characters themselves were treated. Rouths Superman got treated about as good as you can get. They basically played him as the greatest of all Supermen in the multiverse. He made it to the end of part 3 when most didn’t including the earth 38 Superman. Shipp could have had more screen time as Barry Allen but his scenes were excellent. With Welling I thought his scene was well written and well acted. I think he’s has grown a lot as an actor. He did a lot without even speaking. He and Cryer had surprisingly good chemistry. I thought it was very touching and even if Clark gave up his powers who says it’s irreversible. I wouldn’t be shocked if he had a fallback in case he needed his powers back to save the world. The Lucifer scene was hilarious. I need to see more of him and Constantine. Conroy's stuff had great and interesting twists. It’s not all how I would have done it but I don’t feel like any character was crapped on.
The only real complaint I have about Crisis is the pacing could have been better so far and it could have been more focused on its central story. Sometime I felt it went off on tangents when the situation should have a sense of urgency. But even then it wasn’t terrible. The good stuff far outweighs any nitpicks. Just the sheer ambition of this makes me want to cut them some slack. No ones ever really done anything like this for television. Even Star Trek and the Buffyverss just got to the tip of the iceberg within this kind of large interconnected kind of crossover.
Did I mention how much I LOVE the music in this crossover? Best superhero tv music I’ve heard in years. The music department for these shows deserve a pat on the back on. They’ve really elevated their game for this thing.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2019 18:22:37 GMT -5
Honestly as a fan of most of these shows and movies I can’t see how anyone could have major complaints with how the characters themselves were treated. Rouths Superman got treated about as good as you can get. They basically played him as the greatest of all Supermen in the multiverse. He made it to the end of part 3 when most didn’t including the earth 38 Superman. Shipp could have had more screen time as Barry Allen but his scenes were excellent. With Welling I thought his scene was well written and well acted. I think he’s has grown a lot as an actor. He did a lot without even speaking. He and Cryer had surprisingly good chemistry. I thought it was very touching and even if Clark gave up his powers who says it’s irreversible. I wouldn’t be shocked if he had a fallback in case he needed his powers back to save the world. The Lucifer scene was hilarious. I need to see more of him and Constantine. Conroy's stuff had great and interesting twists. It’s not all how I would have done it but I don’t feel like any character was crapped on. The only real complaint I have about Crisis is the pacing could have been better so far and it could have been more focused on its central story. Sometime I felt it went off on tangents when the situation should have a sense of urgency. But even then it wasn’t terrible. The good stuff far outweighs any nitpicks. Just the sheer ambition of this makes me want to cut them some slack. No ones ever really done anything like this for television. Even Star Trek and the Buffyverss just got to the tip of the iceberg within this kind of large interconnected kind of crossover. Did I mention how much I LOVE the music in this crossover? Best superhero tv music I’ve heard in years. The music department for these shows deserve a pat on the back on. They’ve really elevated their game for this thing. I hear a lot of folks loved the Constantine/Lucifer bit- but since I hadn't seen either tv show to a point where it would have an impact- I feel a little sad that I missed out on how cool this should have been as a viewer- but, I did get most of all the other connections to other shows. I do agree that having them portray Routh-Supes as THE best Superman in the multiverse was something that I was head over heels with, and didn't expect as so many of the other crossovers always had Amiell's Arrow as the center of the multiverse (which I never was crazy about as the actor supposedly is a nice guy, but I always felt that Justin Hartley was the perfect Arrow after seeing him in Smallville). I agree, too, that it would have been nice to have had more of a scene with Shipp and Gustin before he sacrificed his life- but then again, the editing bit where they flashed back to Amanda Peet (which I know costs money too) and Shipp when young was a great touch. I echo what you're saying with the music. To hear all the music cues (from what I could tell) from the various movies and tv shows just gave me fan giggles of joy. I don't remember the Flash or Birds of Prey theme- but I did catch John Williams of course with Supes & , Danny Elfman with Bats..... did you notice other musical easter eggs on your part? |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 14, 2019 19:05:49 GMT -5
I’d never see much of Lucifer but I’ve enjoyed Matt Ryan as Constantine even if I wasn’t that impressed with his show. Plus it just makes sense to have a scene somewhere where he meets the actual devil for a favor.
They also used the Batman 66 the Batman TAS theme theme Elfmans Flash theme and some of the incidental music from Smallville. There were also e original themes. Like I loved the main Crisis theme and the theme for Harbinger and The Monitor. And of course the regular Arrowverse themes for Green Arrow Flash Supergirl Batwoman etc. it was great how they melded and weave all that music together too. Going in and out from Routh and Hoechlins Superman themes was cool. As was mixing the Batman TAS and 89 themes although that was easier since Batman TAS did some of that anyway.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2019 20:09:26 GMT -5
I’d never see much of Lucifer but I’ve enjoyed Matt Ryan as Constantine even if I wasn’t that impressed with his show. Plus it just makes sense to have a scene somewhere where he meets the actual devil for a favor. They also used the Batman 66 the Batman TAS theme theme Elfmans Flash theme and some of the incidental music from Smallville. There were also e original themes. Like I loved the main Crisis theme and the theme for Harbinger and The Monitor. And of course the regular Arrowverse themes for Green Arrow Flash Supergirl Batwoman etc. it was great how they melded and weave all that music together too. Going in and out from Routh and Hoechlins Superman themes was cool. As was mixing the Batman TAS and 89 themes although that was easier since Batman TAS did some of that anyway. Matt Ryan seems good as Constantine- (far moreso than well-intentioned but miscast John Wick)- but hearing that Goyer was the showrunner- based on the rather dry "Blade" tv show he did- made me kind of stay away from that show. What gets me over and over about the whole event is how Berlianti had to beg for even an appearance by Superman- so coming from that to now is a great context as to what an achievement this is--- Also- as you mentioned, even ONE crossover back in the day was an amazing event for 'non-superhero' shows that were going on all at the same time. Similar to Endgame, I'm not suprised if both Berlianti and Marvel are taking a 'break' so to speak and apparently not eager to start trying to top themselves with another gigantic crossover right off the bat. As far as I'm concerned, they really delivered in both cases already. |
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2019 9:55:07 GMT -5
Yeah I think so too. They wouldn’t be able to top this...at least not anytime soon. It’d be best to go smaller or at least less ambitious. I wouldn’t mind seeing them adapt Armageddon 2001 or Zero Hour as future crossovers. Legends is possible and could be adapted to fit the smaller scale or tv but would WB even let them use Darksied?
Eclipso was another interesting concept they could play with that could also fit tv and wouldn’t break their budget. Then there’s later stuff like Identity Crisis but I could see that being done much smaller as a Flash series arc. I think Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis would be too big for them to want to tackle any time soon if ever.
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