Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2019 15:12:53 GMT -5
CRISIS aftermath parts one and two
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 16, 2019 4:14:41 GMT -5
Yeah I think so too. They wouldn’t be able to top this...at least not anytime soon. It’d be best to go smaller or at least less ambitious. I wouldn’t mind seeing them adapt Armageddon 2001 or Zero Hour as future crossovers. Legends is possible and could be adapted to fit the smaller scale or tv but would WB even let them use Darksied? Eclipso was another interesting concept they could play with that could also fit tv and wouldn’t break their budget. Then there’s later stuff like Identity Crisis but I could see that being done much smaller as a Flash series arc. I think Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis would be too big for them to want to tackle any time soon if ever. If anything, the thing I'd like them to focus on is figuring out how 'deep' to shape their character development at this point. It's something that both the comics, the tv shows, and a number of the movies seem to have a problem figuring out. If most comic book titles have characters that reach a certain point of development and then 'stay still' for decades once it's figured out what works to make said character interesting enough for comic audiences to keep buying the title forever- It's got to be a challenge for new comic writers to add something new but keep the character the 'same' by the end of their run.... Similarly, I feel it's a challenge for those making a tv show or a series of movies as well for adapting a popular character- and having them grow and change....but not too much, at the same time. Perfect example imo would be how Singer & company dealt with Charles Xavier- With First Class & Days of Future Past, Xavier and Magneto had a great character arc- but by the time it reached Apocalypse, it's like the writers under Singer couldn't figure out what further development to give him- without changing the basic template in the comics- PLUS trying to make the ending go back to a sort of 'status quo' to a degree... In a way it feels like they creatively handcuffed themselves by the time Apocalypse came out, for various reasons. The first half might have had promise but the second half took the trio back to where they were before they met Apocalypse, to a degree... and felt false... much like a bad soap that somehow makes characters go full circle implausibly. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 18, 2019 0:18:06 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 22, 2019 16:24:38 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 26, 2019 12:33:33 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 3, 2020 18:14:05 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 4, 2020 5:53:27 GMT -5
Hmn.... not seeing any Routh Superman images in the bunch. Oh well...  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 7, 2020 13:52:52 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 9, 2020 13:02:57 GMT -5
Neat- though the poster isn't quite as fun as those when they tried to directly imitate a specific comic book cover. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 10, 2020 22:45:39 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 14, 2020 19:53:07 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 15, 2020 5:33:30 GMT -5
Caught it on streaming late night- was generally better than I thought. Loved the surprise with the movie Flash- gave the actor a lot of credit for being willing to do an appearance on the 'small' screen.
Other bits- loved seeing Marv Wolfman's credit for part 4 and his cameo for part 5. The tributes to Green Arrow felt way overlong to me... but since the success of his show ended up subsidizing the shows that came after, I was ok with it.
The moment of seeing the extra earths restored was great, particularly the moment where Routh's Superman did the final flyby- though I wish they let a few more seconds go on for that bit... but it's nice to see that the door is open for him to return, somewhat.
It's funny how the show echoed Endgame in ways- though, again, knowing how the budget and time aren't nearly in the same universe as what the Marvel Studios have to play with does make it more impressive.
It's ironic that Berlianti has done more with the tv budget and superheroes than what WB/DC has been able to do with the Snyderverse. Curious how they'll be able to match or top this miniseries going from here...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 15, 2020 12:27:48 GMT -5
Enjoyed part 4, wasnt as thrilled with part 5, but it was an ok ending. Nice to see some cleanup done on the multiverse to make certain things easier at least. It’ll be interesting to see what else has changed. Gotta give them credit for at least trying to use things like archival footage to give a sense of the breadth of the multiverse. Liked seeing DCU swamp thing and it’s nice that Rouths Superman is still out there. That final shot of him was awful but I appreciated the sentiment. Never thought I’d see the green lantern movie referenced in one of these crossovers but there it is! I wanted more but totally understand they probably had to pull a lot of strings just to make all this happen and per WB a lot of things were probably off limits.   Also much respect to Ezra Miller for being game for this. I don’t even like him as Flash but that was an awesome WTF moment that a lot of people have talked about seeing for years. Most big screen actors wouldn’t do something like this for various reasons but he was true to his word about wanting to do something like this all the way back in 2015 or so and it was nice to see one of the movie stars being so willing to sign on. Once again it really cemented the scale and stakes of “infinite earths” and shows that yeah it does all count. With the multiverse still out there there are always “possibilities” as a certain pointy eared Starfleet officer once said. This has opened she door to some potentially cool stuff down the road. Who knows what we might see going forward. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 15, 2020 12:33:23 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 17, 2020 1:34:31 GMT -5
There was a bit with Ezra Miller on youtube where he was asked years ago about tv Flash, and he couldn't have been more supportive and said he was a fan and thought it was cool. Neat to see actors seem to genuinely share the joy of playing the same character. Also saw this article- it's neat that the producers were senstive enough to the situation to make sure all involved were comfortable first: variety.com/2020/tv/features/crisis-on-infinite-earths-ezra-miller-cameo-marc-guggenheim-interview-1203467952/An excerpt with Guggenheim: "I got a phone call from [Warner Bros. boss] Peter Roth saying, “I know you’re locked, but can you put Ezra into the crossover?” And I said, “Yes.” And he said, “How, you’re series wrapped? And you’re wrapped on the crossover.” And I said, “Yeah, I know, but if you’re telling me Ezra Miller can be in the crossover, I can make it happen.” I called Eric Wallace who who is the showrunner of “Flash,” and he called up Grant Gustin — because the one thing that was our only concern was the thought we didn’t want to do it unless Grant was 100 percent onboard with it. And he was. He was incredibly enthusiastic and onboard with it. And then we got on the phone with Ezra Miller and told him the scene I had written and he was completely into it. " |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 17, 2020 1:41:39 GMT -5
It's actually ironic how there was all this talk about an epic Flashpoint crossover in the movies to reboot and tie everything together- but then Berlianti & company was able to do it with (presumably) less resources for tv.
Makes you wonder: how is it WB tv seems to have it's shite down far better than the movie division?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 17, 2020 10:42:25 GMT -5
Yeah Miller talked about his Flash meeting Gustins Flash all the way back in 2015 and said they would race. It sounded like a fun idea to him. No race (yet) but it everything else ended up happening. Shows how crazy the times we live in as fans are and how if the people involved are willing these companies can make anything like this happen. It also highlights how Marvels excuses for less tv and film interconnectivity were more about the people involved at various levels not being willing. If there’s a will there’s a way.
To me doing Flashpoint as a movie now just seems like it’s way too soon and going too big. Shows how desperate they are to get their shared universe back on track. It’s the first movie. Do something smaller and build to flashpoint. Even the tv show waited a few years before they did it.
As far as how the tv side is able to pull of certain things while the movie side is struggling with crossovers and shared universes is better coordination and better organization. I think despite the arguable quality of the Arrowverse the reason this kind of stuff has been done by them is because they not only planned it but took the time to build up to it so that it doesn’t seem so awkward or forced. The DCEU has just thrown stuff together out of nowhere. We don’t even know enough about Ezras Barry Allen for something like Flashpoint to really matter as much as it should’ve . I know the people at WB have said this version of Flashpoint will only be a loose adaptation of the comic book story but I feel like thats something they should save in their back pocket for later.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 18, 2020 10:15:10 GMT -5
Some Flash/Crisis thoughts. It was interesting to see three different Barry Allen’s at three stages of their careers. Millers Barry is still essentially a rookie speedster and figuring things out. Gustin’s Barry is in his prime but also has a lot of experience under his belt. Shipp’s Barry is the veteran who’s reached the end of the line. It was a cool way to look at three different Flashes together in one story.
It also got me thinking about how this connects to the larger history and careers of each Flash. It seems like this was the fist instance of Miller Flash using his powers to not just go fast but to enter the speed force to travel to different times and dimensions.
This could be him learning how to do what he does later in BvS’s dystopic alternate future where he travels back in time to warn Bruce Wayne about Superman and Lois being “the key.” His line of “I told Victor this was possible” was a hint of that.
We also got to see Shipps Flash do a similar breach across time in space which I think was a nod to not only the original Crisis comic (where Flash appeared as a ghostly apparition warning people) but to BvS as well.
It also reminded me of when Shipps Flash first travelled through time.
We slowly got to see him discover this and other abilities over the course of the season and we learned in Crisis that at some point he even learned how to steal speed.
Millers Flash learning how to enter the speed force and seeing what was possible could be a set up to what happens in the Flashpoint movie.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 19, 2020 22:57:37 GMT -5
Enjoyed part 4, wasnt as thrilled with part 5, but it was an ok ending. Nice to see some cleanup done on the multiverse to make certain things easier at least. It’ll be interesting to see what else has changed. Gotta give them credit for at least trying to use things like archival footage to give a sense of the breadth of the multiverse. Liked seeing DCU swamp thing and it’s nice that Rouths Superman is still out there. That final shot of him was awful but I appreciated the sentiment. Never thought I’d see the green lantern movie referenced in one of these crossovers but there it is! I wanted more but totally understand they probably had to pull a lot of strings just to make all this happen and per WB a lot of things were probably off limits. Also much respect to Ezra Miller for being game for this. I don’t even like him as Flash but that was an awesome WTF moment that a lot of people have talked about seeing for years. Most big screen actors wouldn’t do something like this for various reasons but he was true to his word about wanting to do something like this all the way back in 2015 or so and it was nice to see one of the movie stars being so willing to sign on. Once again it really cemented the scale and stakes of “infinite earths” and shows that yeah it does all count. With the multiverse still out there there are always “possibilities” as a certain pointy eared Starfleet officer once said. This has opened she door to some potentially cool stuff down the road. Who knows what we might see going forward. Absolutely. There was an old youtube vid with Ezra Miller saying how much he loved the tv show- so it's nice to see that he walked the talk. Very cool! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 20, 2020 2:37:03 GMT -5
Some Flash/Crisis thoughts. It was interesting to see three different Barry Allen’s at three stages of their careers. Millers Barry is still essentially a rookie speedster and figuring things out. Gustin’s Barry is in his prime but also has a lot of experience under his belt. Shipp’s Barry is the veteran who’s reached the end of the line. It was a cool way to look at three different Flashes together in one story. It also got me thinking about how this connects to the larger history and careers of each Flash. It seems like this was the fist instance of Miller Flash using his powers to not just go fast but to enter the speed force to travel to different times and dimensions. This could be him learning how to do what he does later in BvS’s dystopic alternate future where he travels back in time to warn Bruce Wayne about Superman and Lois being “the key.” His line of “I told Victor this was possible” was a hint of that. We also got to see Shipps Flash do a similar breach across time in space which I think was a nod to not only the original Crisis comic (where Flash appeared as a ghostly apparition warning people) but to BvS as well. It also reminded me of when Shipps Flash first travelled through time. We slowly got to see him discover this and other abilities over the course of the season and we learned in Crisis that at some point he even learned how to steal speed. Millers Flash learning how to enter the speed force and seeing what was possible could be a set up to what happens in the Flashpoint movie. The three Flashes and how they were handled were pretty neat.... but I wouldn't have minded if they had done some scenes with three Supermen or Flashes at the same time in the Crisis... also, would have been nice if the original Flash death and the Superman 'death' were the sacrifices that saved the multiverse, over Stephen Amell's Green Arrow/Spectre- but...that goes more to my feeling that Amell's Green Arrow wasn't given wayyy too much importance in the Berliantiverse... and feels like the creative decisions were more based on serving Amell's Arrow. I kind of get it from a business point of view given Arrow's ratings, but.... given the practicalities, Crisis is still overall really amazing despite some of my whining. On another note: Flash REALLY looks terrible in costume with facial hair. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 20, 2020 11:29:47 GMT -5
It’s interesting how the Arrowverse superman and flash got to have scenes with each of their counterparts. I can see why they didn’t get all of them together because of scheduling though. I felt Shipp and Routh were served pretty well by the crossover. Welling and Miller just couldn’t commit the time to do more unfortunately. Rouths Superman being killed was a great moment for Luthor though. Felt perfect to me. Great cliffhanger to end things on too by making things look even more hopeless.
I think they gave Amell the big moment as Spectre because Arrow is the show that started this current universe and because He’s leaving with Arrow ending. I think they teased Karas death at the end of part 5 but we all knew that wasn’t happening.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 22, 2020 21:28:24 GMT -5
It’s interesting how the Arrowverse superman and flash got to have scenes with each of their counterparts. I can see why they didn’t get all of them together because of scheduling though. I felt Shipp and Routh were served pretty well by the crossover. Welling and Miller just couldn’t commit the time to do more unfortunately. Rouths Superman being killed was a great moment for Luthor though. Felt perfect to me. Great cliffhanger to end things on too by making things look even more hopeless. I think they gave Amell the big moment as Spectre because Arrow is the show that started this current universe and because He’s leaving with Arrow ending. I think they teased Karas death at the end of part 5 but we all knew that wasn’t happening. Amell returned to the Rosenbaum "Inside of You" podcast and revealed just HOW stressful being a lead to a show was (he had a highly publicized panic attack mid show where he had to leave)- and flatly said that season 8 was love and money--- but money was the reason to do it. I do wonder if he would have been okay with anything for anything if that was the case. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 26, 2020 21:39:05 GMT -5
Working that many hours as the lead of any show is always hard but especially hard for an action series. I can totally understand why Amell stuck around. For that kind of money he would have been foolish to turn it down and it’s not like he worked on something bad. This was one of the better seasons of arrow in recent years. I think being so short, being the last season, and being the lead up to Crisis gave this season a focus the show hasn’t had in a while.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 27, 2020 1:35:27 GMT -5
Working that many hours as the lead of any show is always hard but especially hard for an action series. I can totally understand why Amell stuck around. For that kind of money he would have been foolish to turn it down and it’s not like he worked on something bad. This was one of the better seasons of arrow in recent years. I think being so short, being the last season, and being the lead up to Crisis gave this season a focus the show hasn’t had in a while. Both times Amiell went on Rosenbaum's podcast, I got a completely different view of what lead actors' lives must be like on a hit series. A lot of slivers here and there that I would not have thought of. Also, to hear that at this age he might not commit to a series that was longer than 10 episodes a year was interesting. A large number of actors I imagine would die for any opportunity to be a lead in a tv show- but Amiel and even Rain Wilson said on the podcast how the hours are so tough on the mind and body that they would have to think twice before jumping into that rare opportunity. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 27, 2020 8:29:25 GMT -5
Well it’s nothing new. I remember when highlander ended Adrian Paul was ready to walk away because he was physically exhausted and worked insane hours. Same with Kevin Sorbo in Hercules. Physically it was killing him. Ad on top of all that working in a country you don’t live in and being hundreds of miles away from your family. The same thing happened with Tom Welling on Smallville. He didn’t have a life. He was burned out. It’s why he’s hesitant to jump back into a series. Same thing with Andrew Lincoln on the walking dead.
It’s a massive ask of anyone even with the steady work and the perks. You literally miss your life. It’s different when your young but when you’re older or you have a family it changes the whole equation. Listen to Jon Cryer talk about working on supergirl. Listened to a podcast with him a few days ago and he was exhausted. Those hours are long especially with all the action and special effects heavy stuff. Rosenbaum wasn’t even the lead on Smallville and he’d had enough by season seven. It’s grueling.
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