Some ideas for Superman 2

[Knight]

I watched TDC of Zod in TDP after the fight,excellent-perfect,love it. Then immediately I watched the RIC version of that scene,ouch!!!

awful.

Why Thau looped out Margo during the tearful balcony goodbye is beyond me. The RIC of that scene is so sad,one of my favs.

[TylerDurden389]

Mar 14, 2011 12:19:26 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Having the actors lower the pitch of their own voice is one thing, but slowing it down/speeding it up artificially....

How about just lowering the pitch of their voice without changing the speed like I did? lol.

[TylerDurden389]

Mar 14, 2011 12:30:42 GMT -5 Knight said:

I watched TDC of Zod in TDP after the fight,excellent-perfect,love it. Then immediately I watched the RIC version of that scene,ouch!!!

awful.

Why Thau looped out Margo during the tearful balcony goodbye is beyond me. The RIC of that scene is so sad,one of my favs.

The DC version of the Metro battle aftermath would be fine except for another thing I recently noticed. Another thing Thau forgot to do was add the sounds of commotion outside, as it is in the theatrical. I didn't notice it until my latest draft where I go back and forth between theatrical and DC shots. I noticed the sounds of people and sirens outside kept disappearing and reappearing. Damn you Thau. Damn you to heck!! What an amateur. Over 4 years later and I'm still finding things wrong with this "film".

As for Thau switching Margo's voice for the balcony scene, I didn't believe it at first. I had a bit of an argument with the guy who's on facebook as "capedwonder". When he finally told me he spoke to the actual people who worked on it, then I didn't WANT to believe it. That was the one moment that really got to me in the DC. I actually choked up during that part the first few times I watched it. To find out that it wasn't really Margot's voice was even more heartbreaking. As it stands, I'm leaving it in my cut for the music more than anything else. The music used in that scene from the RIC was the same music from when Lois finds out Clark's secret (Pink bear scene). Though as Supes gets ready to fly away, the music switches to the cue from when de-powered Clark and Lois walk towards the bed. Also, I always figured that Margot's reading of the lines in this scene in the RIC was dubbed later under Lester, as her voice doesn't *quite* match her mouth movements. Especially when she stutters when she says "Except uh, maybe I won't be quite so mean to you from now on".

Geez, now that I think about it, maybe Thau re-dubbed the line with a double because the original audio mix was compromised or something. I do remember them saying something like that somewhere. Maybe they figured it would be cheaper to have a voice double, rather than go through the mixing process of extracting the audio of her line reading from the RIC, while simultaneously changing the background music that was used in the RIC, to the background music that was used in the DC.

This of course is the reason why I'll never be able to get those added lines of hers back in when she talks about "buying her own little rainbow". The music is different there to. Well, come what may, It'd still be nice to get a remastered version of the RIC to clear up some of these things. Can you guys imagine how many more fan edits (or updated versions at least) of S2 there would be if they released it?

[crazy_asian_man]

How about just lowering the pitch of their voice without changing the speed like I did? lol.

That's possible? Interesting. I always assumed the only way was to alter the speed.

As for Thau switching Margo's voice for the balcony scene, I didn't believe it at first. I had a bit of an argument with the guy who's on facebook as "capedwonder". When he finally told me he spoke to the actual people who worked on it, then I didn't WANT to believe it. That was the one moment that really got to me in the DC. I actually choked up during that part the first few times I watched it.

I hear what you're saying- but I look at it this way:

Whether it's Donner or Lester, whether it's the actor or a voice double, whether it's CGI or practical- whatever helps you buy into the film and enjoy it better is the way to go.*

(*I don't mean that lightly- I've obsessed over multiple edits back and forth on my own cut (and continue to), with that also in mind, but it took me a LONG time to get to that simple train of thought.)

Geez, now that I think about it, maybe Thau re-dubbed the line with a double because the original audio mix was compromised or something. I do remember them saying something like that somewhere. Maybe they figured it would be cheaper to have a voice double, rather than go through the mixing process of extracting the audio of her line reading from the RIC, while simultaneously changing the background music that was used in the RIC, to the background music that was used in the DC.

At times I do wonder how many hands would have been better to be hired to do the restoration- if Thau was overloaded with too many tasks for too short a time to be any good, or if he just made bad choices- all the way down the line?

[Knight]

''Damn you Thau,Damn you to heck!'' - yes,I second that very much so. He didnt have a clue what he was doing. Jim ''Capedwonder'' Bowers stressed to Thau what should have been included in the 2001 edit of STM,but did what he damn well pleased anyway.

(we all know to what scenes I'am thinking of here)

The first time I seen TDC,it got to that balcony scene and it was jarringly obvious that Margo had been dubbed over. WTF? it completely dragged me out of the moment. As I had seen the RIC scene ages ago on a Superman site.

I have also noticed the sound continuity as teh villains return to TDP too.

[crazy_asian_man]

Wouldn't it have been awesome if Jim Bowers would have been in charge of the restoration of the RDC? *Sigh*

[Knight]

Yes. I told Jim he it would have been better if he had of done the STM S:E and TDC.

Someone who actually cares about the character and films.

[Kamdan]

I figured that the dubbing in The Donner Cut was due to missing ADR elements from The Restored International Cut.

[crazy_asian_man]

Yes. I told Jim he it would have been better if he had of done the STM S:E and TDC.

Someone who actually cares about the character and films.

Thau doesn't come off as someone who's obsessive of the films or the characters, and I was fine with that- as long as the end result was good. (Or even 'ok').

But....

[Kamdan]

I think that's why the Blade Runner set exceeded. It was put together by people who wanted to see extreme appreciation given to it.

[Knight]

...Yea,that BR set is excellent. I would love a Superman set that would reflect that.

[TylerDurden389]

Mar 17, 2011 18:37:28 GMT -5 Knight said:

...Yea,that BR set is excellent. I would love a Superman set that would reflect that.

I agree. Here's my ideal set:

Superman: The Theatrical Saga 4 disc set

Disc 1: Superman: The Movie - Theatrical version with score only option
Disc 2: Superman KCOP cut remastered w/ tv spots and rare teasers and trailers. Possible commentary from Donner, but not necessary IMO.
Disc 3: Superman 2 - Theatrical *or* RIC remastered in widescreen (if not RIC remastered, then theatrical remastered with ALL RIC scenes included as deleted scenes). Possible commentary by Lester, but again, not necessary.
Disc 4: Superman 2: The Selutron Cut (whatever he wants to call it) with Selutron's commentary, as well as a mini behind-the-scenes look at how Sel was able to create his ideas (sorta like the mini doc. on the Donner Cut).

Considering how much dvd prices have gone down in the past year, I can't see a set like this costing more than 60 dollars at initial release.

Realistically, I'm hoping we get *something* like this after the new Snyder film is made and released on dvd as well.

[crazy_asian_man]

I agree. Here's my ideal set:

Superman: The Theatrical Saga 4 disc set

Disc 1: Superman: The Movie - Theatrical version with score only option
Disc 2: Superman KCOP cut remastered w/ tv spots and rare teasers and trailers. Possible commentary from Donner, but not necessary IMO.
Disc 3: Superman 2 - Theatrical *or* RIC remastered in widescreen (if not RIC remastered, then theatrical remastered with ALL RIC scenes included as deleted scenes). Possible commentary by Lester, but again, not necessary.
Disc 4: Superman 2: The Selutron Cut (whatever he wants to call it) with Selutron's commentary, as well as a mini behind-the-scenes look at how Sel was able to create his ideas (sorta like the mini doc. on the Donner Cut).

Considering how much dvd prices have gone down in the past year, I can't see a set like this costing more than 60 dollars at initial release.

Realistically, I'm hoping we get *something* like this after the new Snyder film is made and released on dvd as well.

My memory is rough, but didn't the 2001 version offer a soundtrack-only option?

I totally agree with the rest, but since the new Supes is due in 2012, if WB were actively trying to create buzz for a new set with new stuff.... wouldn't they start letting people know about it now?

Sadly, I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling we're not getting anything new from the Donner series, even with the Snyder Supes coming out....

[TylerDurden389]

Rewatched the KCOP of STM last night, and an idea sprang to mind a little while ago. Since all the deleted scenes are just that, deleted (I'm also talking about the 8 minutes that were restored for the 2001 release) what if the "gauntlet" scene was moved to the beginning of 2? This idea of course only applies to those who've seen my fan cut. As those of you know, I used Selutron's "post-time travel" scene as an after credits sequence (as opposed to a pre credits sequence, since I do my own version of the theatrical opening credits recap of part 1). After Supes flies away from Lois and Jimmy, I then cut to the "feed the babies" scene where Supes saves Ms. Teschmaker, before cutting to the next morning at the Planet.

However, I'm beginning to wonder if it might be a good idea to have Superman go through the guns, fire, and ice in THIS part of the story. Let me explain:

This scene was created for several reasons. One being that everyone who knows Superman (fans or not), know that he is impervious to fire, ice and bullets. Thus, they wanna see him shrugging off those things like they're nothing because it was a cool thing to see in a movie at the time. Second, this being the 70's and all, it was a great way to show off even more special effects, as many films of the decade did so (Star Wars, The Posiedon Adventure, King Kong remake, etc...)

However, in the end, the scene was deleted for several reasons as well. Firstly, Lex told Supes (while still dressed as Clark at the Planet) that he would release the gas pellet in 5 minutes. Meaning Supes doesn't have much time to save the day. The fact that he simply walks through these traps is out of character. He should be moving quicker (same reason "Go ahead, shoot." was deleted). Second reason it was deleted is simple, time. The movie is long enough already.

So, that being said, I feel that this scene works in MUCH better context at this point in my proposed cut because now Lex has a REAL reason to use these traps (as a last resort to save his hide), and now Supes CAN walk slowly and "have fun' with these traps. He saved Lois, he saved millions of lives. Now all that's left is to take Lex and Otis away to jail. A pretty mundane task, considering what he's already done. Obviously any shots with Ms. Teschmaker wouldn't be used since Lex is mad at her. Also, how would this scene end? Since Supes has already broken down Lex's door, we can't re-use it. I have one idea on how to do this.

Instead of axing the "feed the babies" scene, I would bridge the 2 scenes together. When Supes is frozen in ice, instead of showing Supes break out of it right away, we cut to another shot to make it seem like Lex has won. I need to go over the shots in this scene again to get things a little clearer, but I'm thinking of using a "Ms. Teschmaker!!" yell that Gene shouts in the RIC that I WON'T be using in my cut (or possibly re-use one from STM), the do a fade to the "feed the babies" scene. Basically, Lex is going to kill her now that he thinks Supes is frozen. However, I'll cut BACK to Superman frozen in ice, show him break out of it, cut back to "feed the babies", and play out as normal. Superman saves the day.

Opinions?

[matt]

Sounds great!

[crazy_asian_man]

However, in the end, the scene was deleted for several reasons as well. Firstly, Lex told Supes (while still dressed as Clark at the Planet) that he would release the gas pellet in 5 minutes. Meaning Supes doesn't have much time to save the day. The fact that he simply walks through these traps is out of character. He should be moving quicker (same reason "Go ahead, shoot." was deleted). Second reason it was deleted is simple, time. The movie is long enough already.

I assumed that the second Supes enters the tunnel and the machine guns are all aimed at him, he figures something is already fishy about the whole situation- and that the gas pellet deadline IS bogus. So, that's how I read that situation- and the tension played in that scene, to me, was far more interesting with the back and forth first, than the theatrical, where it starts off with: "The door is open. Come in."

About moving it/splicing it with the Teschmacher rescue scene- it could work, but the question is: How top-heavy do you want the beginning before we get to the moon attack/ the subplot with Lois and Clark? Since there's a giant time gap between the time that the tunnel traps are sprung to Lex in prison- I kind of like that the first time we see Lex (outside of the credit recap) is in prison, for an unspecified time.

By placing the scene there, the pacing could feel longer than you intend... but there's only one way to know for sure if it works.... (as I think you've mentioned to me on occassion)- give it a shot!

[TylerDurden389]

Mar 22, 2011 2:17:04 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I assumed that the second Supes enters the tunnel and the machine guns are all aimed at him, he figures something is already fishy about the whole situation- and that the gas pellet deadline IS bogus. So, that's how I read that situation

No way dude. The first thing Supes says when arrives is "Alright Luthor where's the gas pellet?" in a very assertive voice. He still thought it was real.

[TylerDurden389]

This is a rough draft of my proposed idea of using the 2 deleted scenes from STM and bridging them for Superman 2. What do you guys think?

[snoopkryptodog]

Great job. I love it.

It does introduce a wrinkle. Why the heck would Ms. Tesmacher break Lex out of jail if he tried to kill her?

[TylerDurden389]

Mar 31, 2011 18:57:52 GMT -5 snoopkryptodog said:

Great job. I love it.

It does introduce a wrinkle. Why the heck would Ms. Tesmacher break Lex out of jail if he tried to kill her?

Yeah I know. I'm not gonna try to come up with an explanation for it. There's a reason why this is a deleted scene. It simply doesn't work in the context of either films. For my official fan cut that I upload for mass consumption, I won't be putting this scene in. Same goes for that other deleted scene idea of mine that I posted earlier of Superman discussing his interfering with human history with Jor-el. I might actually axe Selutron's scenes as well, as well as my new ending with Supes flying off to Paris to stop the hydrogen bomb. However, for my own personal copy, these scenes will stay.

Basically, I simply can't settle on what I like, and what works better for the film. But thankfully I can have my cake and eat it to, as they say. For the downloadable version, I'll be removing some of the more "questionable" cuts of mine, such as:

- Zod blowing up the deputy's car with his heat vision. Until I come up with workable footage of course.

- the villains causing havoc in Idaho but without any dialogue (Zod tossing the guy through the wall, and Ursa breaking the guy's arm on the table). I've seen edits of this scene with different music, and it add more "doom and gloom" to the scene.

- Lois knowing his secret in the end. For this version of my fancut I'll probably end up leaving it open ended. I'll probably leave out the balcony goodbye and figure something out after they hug and Lois says "Don't ever forget". Really, she seems much more optimistic in this scene. I might still do the Pizza scene with my edits that make it seem like they're playing it off as a joke.

- Paris ending. I'll stick with the Flag return and the Earth fly-over.

- Selutron's scenes. No dvd quality, no dice. I might consider tackling the rotscopes myself. In which case, these scenes will return. As for which version I'll use, Booshman's latest fan cut has helped with a lot of the scenes I was iffy about using. He fixed Jor-el's head color for the Lex at the FOS scene AND added the crystal viewer. He also found a way to make the blank bullets scene "passable" to me.

As for what's been going on lately. A friend of mine who is very familiar with AE has been working on my new "repowering ending" scene where I'll be using shots from S3 in order to create a brand new scene of Superman rising up from the ground after being repowered, and flying off to save the day. I'm going to make brand new opening credits as well since AE can do that. I actually plan on re-doing the ENTIRE fan cut over from scratch using AE, as I'll be able to do better color correcting that way. Who knows, when this new blu-ray set comes out I might just use those.

[Rod]

very nice! i like it!

suddenly i started to think that some cue could be used, you know, between the piano scenes.
the tone is very light, very fantasy like, so something as ´super rescues´from the soundtrack seems interesting.

and the glorious end fits with the ice scene and the rescue of Ms. Teschmaker!

my two cents.

[TylerDurden389]

Here's a trimmed version of CAM's edited moon sequence with footage from the film "capricorn one". I actually might not use this is my next draft because TBH, i never really too much of a problem of this scene as-is.

[TylerDurden389]

This idea of mine is to try and salvage something out of the more humorous scenes in the films and make them properly "darker". The first thing you'll notice is I added the music in the b.g. The music builds up as the scene itself builds up, and it ends with Zod killing these two officers by blowing their car with his heat vision (they won't appear later in the East Houston scenes) In earlier drafts I didn't have footage of a car exploding, and I just kept the sound of an explosion, but cutaway so that you're left guessing. Now I have footage of a car exploding in a similar setting but it's not exact, which is why it's a very quick cut. I'll continue to look for footage that works, and I'll also see what AE can do. Either way, I don't wanna play this scene out as normal. Booshman did a great job with his idea for this scene, but I didn't think the "quick shadow figure" grabbing the gun from him worked.

The second half of the sequence is my take on the diner scene. I've removed any humor here and kept the villains hurting the townfolks. A member who viewed my cut told me this scene doesn't work, and I'll probably use a version of this scene from another fan edit that replaces the music to make the scene darker. However, I thought you guys should see it anyway and tell me if you think there's any way I can salvage this.

[atp]

What's with this "embedding disabled by request" crap?

Try to fix it please.

[TylerDurden389]

Apr 10, 2011 10:45:09 GMT -5 atp said:

What's with this "embedding disabled by request" crap?

Try to fix it please.

No idea. Just click 'watch on youtube'.