the "NEW" superman - general discussion

[Jor-L5150]

BleedingCool.com have a couple of rumors circulating that will interest Superman comic book fans.

Last week they latched on to writer Andy Diggle's, "So I just landed the biggest job of my career. #terrified" tweet as a hint that the British writer would be taking over the reigns of "Action Comics" once Grant Morrison ended his run with issue #16.

Today they speculate on the possibility that writer Scott Snyder and artist Jim Lee will be teaming up for a new monthly Superman book in 2013 titled "Man of Steel".

It's planned for the middle of next year I understand, probably part of the DC Fifth Wave, and to give Jim Lee enough of a head start to give the book a successful constant artistic run as Justice League had in the beginning.

We'll try to find out what we can, but for now take these as nothing more than rumors until we get an official announcement from DC Comics.

[Jor-L5150]

not sure how i feel about that, i'd rather they get SUPERMAN (vol3) in top shape before more spinoffs.

- also, this almost certainly won't be related to the film if it's a monthly book. while "man of steel" will predictably HAVE a comic book adaptation i doubt they'd commit to a monthly book based on it.
looking forward to seeing cavill's suit in comic book form- i hope they someone outstanding to draw it. cavill already looks like superman, i want a superman book to definitely look like cavill! ;D

reading speculation that it will be aimed as lookalike book to bank on the movie hype- and introduce ZOD to the new 52 universe.
makes sense- but i could so totally do without jim lee.

[Valentine Smith]

This week's issue of Action made me weep tears of joy.

[Deleted]

Eh? Why?

[Valentine Smith]

Because it was probably the best Krypto story I've ever read.

[Deleted]

That's like saying, "That was the least worst punch in the head I've ever had."

[Valentine Smith]

You have a dog. You love dogs. This will hit all of your happy/sad buttons.

[Kirok]

I'm a dog lover and I agree, it struck some emotional chords with me.

That said, I liked the IDEA of the story, I just didn't particularly like the execution. A few things stuck out to me: First and foremost Xa-Du's backstory being more or less Zod's backstory ("You and your family, Jor-El!"). This will take away Zod's uniqueness when he's ultimately introduced into the New 52. And maybe I'm just dumb, but I never really understood the explanation of how Xa-Du escaped in the first place or where that suit came from. And the Phantom Stranger? Uh...what? How'd HE get in the Phantom Zone?

But yes, I liked all the Krypto stuff and and backup story was touching .

[Valentine Smith]

I think they're saving Zod for Snyder's book in June. I think it'll be awesome, whatever they do.

It's interesting that they haven't totally thrown out certain Donnerverse elements and some of the better stuff from the previous soft re-boot (the Johns/Frank/Donner/etc stuff from post-Infinite Crisis), which I think is great. I thought those comics gave us the best portrayal of Krypton EVER.

I thought the issue was a little dense, but I didn't have any real problem with it. And the epilogue...especially that last panel...seriously. I cried.

I even enjoyed Lobdell's Superman #0!

[crazy_asian_man]

Reasons why Perez says his run was horrible:
(scroll to the middle)
www.bleedingcool.com/2012/06/24/george-perez-talking-about-being-rewritten-at-dc-comics/

Essentially:
1- DC micro-managing and being indecisive to the writer on every issue
2- DC wanting to have the continuity fit Morrison's version--- even while Morrison's stuff keeps changing.

I love Morrison's work- and I would normally assume this was a 'sour grapes' interview--- but Jim Starlin had exactly the same complaints in why his 'Death of the New Gods' was so schizophrenic.

I don't blame Morrison, but DC's system at this point.

[Valentine Smith]

I love Grant Morrison. He might be my favorite comic writer in...ever. BUT...he's clearly the problem. Why is it that he's never been able to finish a project with a single artist? Except for All-Star Superman, in which it took him and Frank Quitely almost three years to put out 12 issues. Seriously...every project he works on, they burn through artists, there are delays, etc.

He's a brilliant, brilliant writer, and he seems like a nice guy. But clearly there's something about his writing style and his "idea a second" nature that screws people up. Obviously, DC is beholden to him, and when he's the big dog on a project, he SHOULD be. But I can see how this causes problems.

Perez has some points, but it doesn't account for the horrific, over-written, dense, stilted dialogue of those issues. Not to mention stretching a one issue story over six.

[cypher85]

Haven't read any Andy Diggle work (though my wife wasn't a fan of his daredevil work with Shadowland). But, I am so ready for morrison to be off this book. Maybe if his superman work was less like his recent eccentric work and more like his 96 JLA it would have clicked. But, with the exception of the first couple of issues, I really haven't enjoyed action at all. 15 was ok, but then as ATP would say, 16 was just crap.

[Valentine Smith]

Action Comics has been pretty disjointed. I "get" what he's doing, but it hasn't clicked. I'd probably like it more if I wasn't comparing to All Star Superman or his JLA stuff. Although, really, his JLA run is marred by inconsistent artwork, as well.

[crazy_asian_man]

• I love Grant Morrison. He might be my favorite comic writer in...ever. BUT...he's clearly the problem. Why is it that he's never been able to finish a project with a single artist? Except for All-Star Superman, in which it took him and Frank Quitely almost three years to put out 12 issues. Seriously...every project he works on, they burn through artists, there are delays, etc.
  He's a brilliant, brilliant writer, and he seems like a nice guy. But clearly there's something about his writing style and his "idea a second" nature that screws people up. Obviously, DC is beholden to him, and when he's the big dog on a project, he SHOULD be. But I can see how this causes problems.
  
  Perez has some points, but it doesn't account for the horrific, over-written, dense, stilted dialogue of those issues.
  

EDIT:

That's where another side of the story comes in (and why I tend to find more fault with DC's system than the writers) I wish my friend would upload his interview w/ Morrison from a year or so back--- wherein Morrison talks about the process of working with DC (non-critically I should point out)- where in the past, he would submit things for approval via regular mail---- there would be notes for changes, he would make them- send them back--- and if was close to printing time, that would be that. But with the internet age, he commented that it was more difficult because there would be little to no 'rest' time for editorial requests and changes because of how fast the scripts and notes would be exchanged on email.

Jim Starlin talked about 'tricking' the system back then, by being intentionally late on things, so that editors couldn't change (or change things too much) back and forth because of the looming print deadline.

Anyhow- What Starlin and Perez complained about DC subverting everything for Morrison--- I've read elsewhere in bits from other writers about DC doing the same thing for Geoff Johns- I wouldn't be all that surprised if DC did the same for Jim Lee or another fan favorite who brings in giant numbers-

Now, if everything worked out pretty smoothly, I actually wouldn't care all that much. But it is frustrating being someone who grew up loving comics, and not minding spending some money continuing to get them---- to keep reading more and more of the 'behind the scenes' politics (and it's of course not limited to DC and not limited to just the current time--- it just seems like the New 52 is one of the biggest messes ever so far) --- it does seem like a REAL miracle if any titles are any good (or can stay that way) under this system.

[Kirok]

Andy Diggle and Tony Daniel's run on Action Comics has been pushed back AGAIN. Now they'll start on #19, and in the meantime we'll be getting a (delayed) #17 and #18 Grant Morrison and Rags Morales. Both issues will be super-sized and priced higher accordingly. Full story here: www.newsarama.com/comics/action-comics-17-18-delay-supersize.html

Ugh, enough already. Maybe if Morrison hadn't wasted issues on weird ass tangents he would've been able to finish his story "in time." And I put that in quotes because he's the one choosing to leave the book. Not that I'm complaining, IMO Action hasn't been truly good since around #4, but whatever happened to writers sticking with books for a while? DC bends over backwards to accommodate Morrison to headline one of their flagship titles, and he stays for less than two years? Say what you will about Geoff Johns being stretched too thin, at least he's committed to the brand and giving 110%. I'll take him over Morrison every time.

[Valentine Smith]

I don't care too much about Diggle/Daniel. Diggle is a capable enough writer, but he's never written Superman, and I'm not sure how he's gonna do. I think Daniel is a pretty bland Jim Lee clone.

But like I said, Morrison is clearly the problem. I understand if he wanted these last two issues to be ALL Rags Morales art (which we haven't had since, what...the first issue), which will account for some of the delay. The book has felt disjointed. #1 is one of my favorite Superman comics EVER, and I adored #13, too. But in between, it's been "the kitchen sink." I would have greatly preferred an extended run dealing with "t-shirt Superman" and his early, idealistic, anti-authority crusade.

Unfortunately, because of the five year gap nature of the DC reboot, this latest version of Superman feels neither cohesive nor comprehensive.

[Kirok]

It's not so much me chomping at the bit for Diggle, I just want Morrison off the book ASAP. His run started out with so much promise but as soon as the story skipped back to Krypton (#5 I believe) it lost all momentum and never recovered. All the bizarre tangents and random stories (like the President Superman of Earth 23 or whatever) didn't help either.

Like you Val, I would've like to get more of the t-shirt Superman serving as the "champion of the opressed" as Morrison so often promised leading up to the New 52. I was in many panels at SDCC in 2011 where he reiterated just that! This excited me because it was a take on the character that hadn't really been explored since his inception on the late '30s. That didn't last long though, and just a few issues in he was fighting Brainiac, Metallo, flying, and wearing his final costume! What a missed opportunity Action Comics has been under Morrison, especially considering the potential of the time period.

I am excited for Tony Daniel though. He might be a terrible writer (see: Detective Comics) but I for one really like his artwork.

[Deleted]

I also bailed on Action after it dropped the initial premise of the roguish Superman.

[MerM]

So I guess they got Orson Scott Card to write a Superman story?

No. Just... no. Fuck that. I don't care that he wrote Ender's Game, his odious personal opinions (and the fact that he can't keep them to himself) make him a terrible choice for Superman, of all characters.

[Valentine Smith]

And the fact that Ender's Game is tedious and the most overrated sci-fi novel of my lifetime. He sucks as a person and as a writer.

[cypher85]

Ender's Game is tedious and the most overrated sci-fi novel of my lifetime. He sucks....as a writer

Regardless of Card's personal views and his stance on gay marriage, I couldn't disagree with your stance on Ender's game's game more . It is one of the most seminal sci-fi works I've read. Ender's game and Dune are my two favorite sci-fi novels. Part of it could be that I first read EG when I was 12, so right at that perfect age for that story.

With this Superman controversy I only just learned about Card's stance on Gay marriage. It's appalling bigotry at it's worst. But, doesn't take away my love of Ender's game (and most of the ender/shadow series, but not all, there are some clunkers in there).

[Valentine Smith]

Dude writes like he's writing on a calculator. Beyond dull.

Dune is pretty dry prose-wise, but it's layered and endlessly fascinating, and the dialogue is fantastic. Ender's Game just put me to sleep. Never understood the appeal. Then again, I appear to be the ONLY one, as everyone loves that book.

[Deleted]

Does this mean I'll have to boycott the movie? What if Harrison Ford is good again?

[Valentine Smith]

I ain't seein' it.

[Deleted]

Because of the book? Or the gay?